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okay um today we are going to talk about
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talking to people which is every engineer's favorite thing to do uh okay so we are going to start with a
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little hand raising exercise um um raise your hand if you paid attention fully in
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the last meeting that you were in like beginning to end Okay small handful of
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hands um raise your hand if you remained fully engaged in the last deeply
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technical meeting that you were in okay a few more all right okay raise
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your hand if you don't like meetings all right that's what I figured okay this is
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because so many meetings suck uh even if they aren't a waste of time even if they
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have a good purpose they have an agenda they check all those sort of initial boxes still so many meetings suck I'm
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Allison McMillan um the best compliment that I ever got was that I run me meetings like I hate meetings uh and I
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am a big believer in the fact that so many meetings Gatherings and sessions
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that we do together in groups are bad because they just sort of happen instead
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of being facilitated in thoughtful ways a little bit about me uh I am on
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the Ruby Central board I had a podcast about being a parent in Tech called parent-driven development um and for my
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day job I help people have better conversations um I do that by doing
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one-on-one advising and mentoring as a fractional VP of engineering and by running offsites Retreats facilitations
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strategic planning uh strategy and prioritization days all of those kinds
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of conversations um two super quick mentions uh we are looking for a new
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Ruby Central board members this is the application link um I can also put in
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slack afterwards if you are interested or curious feel free to talk to me um
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and I'm also hiring a principal software engineer role for one of the companies that I'm a VP of engineering at um so
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also P me if you want more information there okay um much of what's written
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about meetings gives really starter suggestions right they offer things like
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have an agenda think about the attendee list think about the Cadence of the
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meetings and all of those things are really important but that is where it
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starts right running a meeting especially a technical one is so so much
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more than that here's some information about
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meetings 71% of senior managers believe that meetings are
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inefficient how workers feel about the effectiveness of meetings correlates
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with their General satisfaction or dissatisfaction with their
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job almost 40% of employees consider unproductive meetings to be the highest
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cost to their organizations 62% say that meetings Miss
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opportunities to actually bring the team closer together and only half of all meetings
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are effective well-used and engaging and those numbers drop even lower when it
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comes to remote meetings but meetings are also necessary right especially the ones where we're
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talking about technical approaches feasibility post-mortems next steps
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right all those meetings are necessary and really important so I would love for folks to
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shout out some of the reasons why you're at last technical meeting was
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helpful context context Dr a decision drove a
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decision design oh there were a couple there at once Clarity all right service issues
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great event nice okay so here are some of mine um two
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brains are better than one more brains better than fewer we can build upon each other's
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approaches it's a tool for teaching learning and knowledge sharing and it
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decreases that Lottery Factor right what happens if someone wins the lottery and leaves tomorrow who else knows about
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that part of the code base and these skills are also really critical to Career growth right it's
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something that you do more and more you grow in seniority at some point your career becomes a little bit less about
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Hands-On coding it's not just about writing and shipping code it's about getting people on the same page it's
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about creating alignment it's about solving some of the gnarliest problems that your company is seeing and you're
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helping to unstuck or unblock others right when Engineers come to me to talk about that next promotion or they're
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trying to figure out how to level up more often than not this is the skill set that's their primary growth
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Edge how many people here have recently led a technical conversation or discussion in anyway to turn a path
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forward new feature functionality good number of folks what would people say about the
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last technical meeting that you ran but they say it was informative that
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there were a lot of rabbit holes that we went down that it was just the same people talking and it was a little
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chaotic that it was interesting inclusive that it ended without action
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items a lot of these conversations are usually really frontal right you share your screen you talk through an idea you
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ask for comments or feedback sometimes you provide a pre-read sometimes people actually read that
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pread uh sometimes it's you know a loom walkr in advance did you know that employe is
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multitask in at least 41% of meetings you are potentially multitasking right
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now and we know that especially in rote meetings right we're always fighting against dozens of other
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distractions what if all of the reactions to your meetings could be things like it was really engaging super
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informative I had a chance to provide my own approach I felt really comfortable sharing my opinion we walked through Uh
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current thinking and approach and understanding and it's possible facilitation is a
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superpower and I'm going to share um some of the steps today that you can use so first in order to facilitate you
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first need to think really deeply about the conversation that you're having this goes beyond having an agenda or an
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outline this is the purpose think really deeply about the purpose because not every conversation
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is the same right even when you're looking at technical conversations every feature approach every retro every let's
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talk about this brittle part of our code base is a little bit different what do
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you want from people are you looking to explain your idea are you looking to
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generate a variety of approaches and ideas are you looking to solicit criticism or feedback about risks or
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what could go wrong do you want to give people enough context to join the work all of those are different purposes for
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the same sort of technical conversation or subject matter and then prepare yourself what's
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the structure of the meeting going to be how will you ensure that people are actually following what you're saying
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how will you get the diverse opinions in the room right how will you limit that
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person who is always taking over the conversation from doing so and how will you hear from that person who's really
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quiet but who you know usually has really good ideas and how will you get the opinion of that person who always
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has one but frequently doesn't bring it up until it's too late and then it feels like in order to address that concern
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you have to take 10 steps back next you want to articulate that
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Vision let people know what those core questions are that you want to ask and
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what the purpose of the meeting is this gives folks a chance to prepare
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themselves and a chance to narrow their mindset to the purpose of the meeting it sets the expectations which also allows
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you to keep the time really focused and engaged if everyone knows why they're at
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the meeting when you go down rabbit holes you can bring them back to the
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purpose now there are um two approaches or two ways to sort of think about making meetings really engaging and
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interesting to accomplish your goals the first are modalities these are sort of exercises or things that you can do and
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the second are instructions or framing right so how people are having these conversations I'm going to talk about
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modalities first um I'm going to give you five modalities again modality is like a fancy word for an exercise um
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that you can utilize with your groups okay so the first exercise that you can do is to have people think about
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different approaches to the problem the goal here is to come up with a massive quantity of ideas because you need a
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critical mass of ideas including a whole lot of bad ones to pick out the good
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ones you can do this by providing a technical approach first and then having people sort of play around with that
00:10:07.959
approach using a question like how would you change this approach think of all the ways or you can present people with
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the problem that you're trying to solve and then people can brainstorm different solutions right these ideas will have
00:10:21.760
varying levels of technical feasibility right some are going to be like no that's not possible some are like oh interesting but that's the goal right
00:10:28.920
and you could can encourage this through thinking through a handful of different prompts that really help people think
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outside the
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approach is that you can have people list out the risks and concerns that they have of a certain technical
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approach either out loud or posted uh first and then have them Circle the one
00:11:00.240
that they think is the most probable and then the conversation be beyond that
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becomes how are you mitigating that or diminishing that particular risk right what can be done thought of or changed
00:11:12.839
to alleviate those feelings or concerns okay how might we um this
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exercise is sort of really a reframe when you're solving a problem frease it as how might we
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statements uh you can also toss this to participants and you can say like hey how about you all come up with a few how
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might we statements as a way of determining the different things you actually need to discuss and decide about and anything can be a how might be
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right so some examples might be um how might we build X feature or how might we
00:11:44.880
have resolve this incident faster how might we make X part of our code base more stable and reliable you can also
00:11:51.880
use how might weuse when you're not coming up with a specific technical approach something like um how might we
00:11:58.200
alleviate concern concerns about a risky approach or a less than ideal technical solution that we needed to put in place
00:12:04.279
because of a time frame promise never done that right um or how might we
00:12:09.800
understand what Solutions fit within our constraints fourth option if you're not
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looking to open up the conversation so widely is to present an approach and
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then have the participants change one thing about it to change one thing
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shapes the constraints and Narrows down what people are thinking it allows for
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additional participation because the barrier to entry is much lower right people don't have to be like okay do I understand
00:12:39.519
this entire approach this entire thing to make changes to come up with new ideas Etc right it's really they don't
00:12:46.040
have to think about all those complex risks and mitigations it's just can they think of one aspect or one approach one
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thing that they would change and that they would alter to improve the approach in some way and explain why
00:13:00.399
and lastly um utilize the virtual whiteboards especially for folks that are remote um we love a good virtual
00:13:07.399
right whiteboard even though we still know there isn't a great great one in Tech we're still working on that um and
00:13:13.360
we're really good at virtual Post-it noting so create a board that has different sections on it at the top of
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each section frame a question that you want the group to discuss and answer now what these questions or sections will be
00:13:26.079
will vary wildly based on the purpose of your meeting meeting um but they should be answerable with a variety of ideas
00:13:33.600
that are short enough to fit on one post a note like one post a note per one idea
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and then you can do a lot of things with that you can group them you can discuss sort of figure out where to go from
00:13:46.800
there okay these exercises approaches these modalities are important for a number of
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reasons that again build on some of the success factors that we talked about earlier
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they give more ideas a chance at least 30% of workers believe that their ideas
00:14:05.360
are shut down far too quickly in meetings they allow people to build on
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each other's ideas they enable creativity and creative thinking and
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solutioning and they Foster a deeper sense of curiosity and
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Discovery all these are sort of initial approaches right you start with these kinds of exercises to get people talking
00:14:33.040
engaging and interacting and then you start narrowing down those ideas to figure out like okay what actually fits
00:14:39.519
within our constraints what feels actually realistic or interesting Etc it's a slightly different set of
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exercises and approaches that I'm not going to go into today um to make sure you're getting to those specific next
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steps and action items but there are things like dot voting um or a number of other ideas that really sort of take a
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large set of inputs and and and start narrowing them
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down okay the other way to do this is through
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instructions So the instructions are the way that people participate in these
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modalities instructions and varied instructions are great for introverts
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for neurodiverse folks and for greater engagement of everyone right if I were to like tldr this section I would say
00:15:29.199
not all discussions need to be large group discussions by varying the instructions
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and the way that folks are participating not just what they're participating in you're accommodating different
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personalities different learning styles different thought processes to create a more inclusive atmosphere and ensure
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that all voices are being heard and considered so what do I mean by
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instructions so here is an example when you're having people discuss a question
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or an approach again it could be a specific question in your overall sort of technical meeting or a larger
00:16:06.319
technical approach break it up into Parts first give a minute or two for
00:16:11.800
people to think on their own and get their thoughts together then have them talk with a pair
00:16:18.199
to share those ideas then have two pairs get together for a small group of four and have the
00:16:24.560
small groups discuss and then have each of the small groups sort of share with a large regroup their thoughts right
00:16:31.279
there's a progression here and it allows people to participate on different levels and makes your meeting way more
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Dynamic more effective and more efficient because not everyone has to share their thought in a large
00:16:45.959
group and you don't have to do the entire progression right frequently just having people chat and pairs can be
00:16:51.759
really effective or maybe they're in pairs and then they go back to the big group and then they go back into those
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same pairs for like a next discussion or you mix up the pairs right it depends a little bit on the size of your group
00:17:03.560
what you're trying to achieve Etc or chatting in small groups is helpful right you can go right into that and
00:17:09.839
then small groups can summarize their concern or like what is the one thing that they want to bring to so they're
00:17:16.000
not summarizing their whole conversation but they as a small group have to decide what's the one thing that we want to bring to the larger group um for further
00:17:23.799
thinking and discussion this is all to say that
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having conversations in a large group isn't bad portions in a large group can also be good um but I would say if
00:17:36.600
you're having large group discussions especially remotely you can use some of those remote tools to your advantage so
00:17:43.120
for example you can uh use emojis to your benefit to ask people to be
00:17:48.720
reacting to things regularly in the chat it also has the side benefit if you have like a very like chatty chat group um it
00:17:56.880
has a side benefit of keeping some of the those side threads to a minimum because people know that the chat is
00:18:03.000
actually going to be used for the purpose of like advancing the primary discussion that you're trying to
00:18:09.520
have okay I know there are probably some of you in this room who are thinking about
00:18:15.440
all the reasons that this wouldn't work maybe it's because there's a level of unfamiliarity here or a level of
00:18:22.360
skepticism about these kinds of exercises and how effective they would be in technical discussions and
00:18:28.039
situations and facilitating conversations can also be really scary because you have to let
00:18:34.360
everyone in right all of those different personalities that we talked about before they're all part of the
00:18:41.159
conversation and sometimes it's just easier to give a presentation and hope there aren't too many
00:18:48.480
questions so here's how you can avoid some of the most common conversation facilitation
00:18:55.880
pitfalls first is through feedback and how feedback is phrased so we talked about how might we a little bit before
00:19:02.280
in terms of like how you can frame um questions in the discussion but also phrasing feedback through how might we
00:19:09.679
statements or what are all the ways in which or I'm curious about can all be
00:19:15.919
really powerful they can help reframe rephrase and refocus what someone is
00:19:22.080
asking it feels more constructive it might feel a little forced to sort of require this like
00:19:28.840
required these sentence starters at the beginning but it also um it really helps
00:19:35.840
individuals be more succinct in their thoughts as well because they have to specifically figure out what question
00:19:42.960
they're asking as opposed to like word vomiting a bunch of thoughts at you or
00:19:48.039
the rest of the group Next is knowing when to move on
00:19:54.520
establish a parking lot explain what the parking lot is at the beginning so everyone's aware this is the parking lot
00:20:02.679
when something comes up that we want to talk about more but that doesn't fit into the specific purpose of this
00:20:09.919
conversation again you get to bring it back to your purpose because you've set and established your purpose already so
00:20:15.280
you can use that purpose as a tool you can say it doesn't fit into the specific purpose of this conversation we're going
00:20:21.880
to add it to the parking lot and then we'll blah blah blah right like you can explain when the parking lot will be
00:20:28.080
Revisited it usually is not in the same meeting so you can focus on your purpose
00:20:33.120
and constantly bring it back to that uh next are rabbit holes the
00:20:40.960
parking lot can be one successful way to deal with a rabbit hole the other is by
00:20:46.720
um taking a kind of poll from the group so after a few minutes when it feels like the group probably has enough
00:20:53.280
context on this topic again for the purposes of this conversation but it
00:20:58.960
seems like the conversation is still continuing um you can ask the group for a thumbs up thumbs down or middle thumb
00:21:07.000
on if you should continue the current conversation thread so up is yes down is no middle is I could go either way um
00:21:14.760
the other way that I use this sometimes is when someone really really really wants to talk about something and I'm
00:21:21.720
not sure if it will or won't add to the conversation so it's not an easy like okay let's talk about this and then do
00:21:27.919
thumbs or okay let's parking lot this um I'll say something like I'll time box it
00:21:33.279
so I'll say something like okay I'm putting four minutes on the clock for this conversation when the timer Chimes
00:21:38.880
everyone do thumbs so that we know if we should move on or add a few more minutes to the clock for this conversation
00:21:45.360
thread and it's really like the timer Chimes I go thumbs and everyone just holds up so it's a very quick sort of
00:21:52.000
like glance of okay
00:21:57.039
cool the next Pitfall is when no one knows what's being talked about but
00:22:02.799
everyone is pretending that they do you can recognize this because
00:22:09.520
there's often complete silence when questions are asked or when asked for questions a good solution here is to um
00:22:17.880
take like a five minute break and ask for questions to anonymously or semi anonymously be sent to you as folks go
00:22:25.360
on to break right you can say something like what's something you need Clarity on you know you can open up like feel
00:22:31.679
free to post a question or send me a question like I lost you at X part Etc and then you can review them sort of
00:22:38.440
pretty quickly during the break and as folks get back you can reset you can clarify you can update on you know terms
00:22:45.760
approaches questions uh
00:22:51.080
Etc finally the ultimate Pitfall is having a lot of conversation with
00:22:58.520
without any actual action items or getting to any sort of a conclusion really need to get to
00:23:05.400
decisions and next steps this is the part that so many meetings Miss on you
00:23:11.520
have to end with action items and next steps when conversations seem to be going in different directions you can
00:23:17.799
try a recap right what I'm hearing is do we have any specific actions we
00:23:23.840
want to take or decisions we want to put in front of everyone my like spicy hot take is that
00:23:29.880
if your meeting doesn't end with action items or next steps maybe it shouldn't have been a
00:23:38.200
meeting okay so take a moment to think or you can write this down if you have a
00:23:44.480
notebook handy one thing I want to try in my next
00:23:49.520
technical group conversation is one thing I want to try in my next
00:23:56.480
technical group conversation is
00:24:11.640
here's what I hope you try I hope you try a new to you approach
00:24:17.760
that encourages more participation I hope that you try
00:24:23.240
sitting in silence for a little bit longer than you're comfortable with
00:24:29.679
I hope you try developing your gut sense of when a conversation is on track or off
00:24:37.320
track and I hope you try some new approaches to re-engage people when you
00:24:42.720
start to notice that they're obviously doing something else without calling them out right because the that's the
00:24:48.559
worst nobody wants to be called out and your goal is not to embarrass them it's to engage
00:24:55.559
them so the next time that you feel like talking too much you probably are deploy one of these methods to allow
00:25:03.720
others ideas opinions thoughts and reactions to surface you won't regret it
00:25:09.279
you'll develop your own facilitator superpowers um I'd love to answer
00:25:15.039
questions for folks you can find me in the hallway around uh the conference today I think we might have a couple minutes for questions I look like this
00:25:22.799
um I'm also happy to answer to help or answer any questions after the conference because really like running
00:25:29.520
uh helping people plan and facilitate effective meetings Retreats offsites Etc is my most favorite thing to do in the
00:25:49.480
you questions questions did I mention that I do one-on-one advising
00:25:56.159
inventory um so I think that you can uh you can start by being like hey that
00:26:02.200
meeting was really interesting I'm curious how you think it went or I'm curious like what your goals of the of
00:26:07.360
the meeting were right how can I help you like how can I help you achieve those um you can sometimes be like oh I
00:26:14.840
saw this conference talk it might be interesting to try a few of these things in our next might be interesting to try
00:26:20.880
a few of these things in our in our next meeting um because some like sometimes
00:26:26.320
actually your managers like don't think that they are running a meeting well but they don't know any other way right and
00:26:31.960
so they just run meetings how they're like they're like well we have to have a meeting so I guess this is how we're
00:26:37.039
going to do it right so like I would say at least half the time like they're also not thrilled with how it's going um but
00:26:44.840
they just don't know any any different or how to sort of try other things um so
00:26:49.880
you could you could sort of try try in that way you know like I'm curious what
00:26:55.039
the goals are I want to help achieve those goals right those sorts of things yeah's a gentle way to call people out
00:27:03.279
we multitasking like I was um during during meetings yeah um sometimes it's
00:27:10.440
usually not just one person uh so sometimes I'll say something like hey just a reminder like let's really focus
00:27:17.039
that we're making the most time because like nobody likes a wasted meeting right so sometimes I'll be like hey let's make
00:27:22.200
sure that windows are closed so that we're focusing uh on our purpose here um sometimes I'll say like it looks like we
00:27:28.960
need five minutes so that people can uh just like dive into and then put to bed
00:27:34.640
anything that they're sort of wrapping up I do it also um when running offs sites I always suggest that sort of the
00:27:40.720
day before there's a strong encouragement to say like wrap up any threads that you think might be
00:27:46.399
distracting so also if you're going to a longer Workshop session like a three-hour right you can also put that
00:27:51.840
in the morning like to prepare for the workshop today make sure your mental threads that might take you elsewhere
00:27:57.799
are wrapped up make sure that you set your slack status so that you don't feel bad about not answering a DM um right
00:28:04.279
but you can also say like if it looks like you're losing everyone you can say let's take five and then and then come
00:28:09.600
back I yes um this is like death by report out uh so this is where um like
00:28:16.919
sometimes in small groups you can say like what's the one idea the other thing that I'll do is start a sentence prompt
00:28:23.399
and then model it so like on this slide um
00:28:28.799
one thing I want to try in my next technical conversation is if we were doing that let's say we had 10 people
00:28:34.320
and I wanted everyone to to do that as like a closing I I would model it I would say finish the sentence no run-ons
00:28:41.000
no ANS buts Etc no multi sentences one thing I want to try in my next technical
00:28:46.840
conversation is I would role model it um and then as the next like one or two
00:28:52.760
people go if somebody doesn't start with that sentence prompt and finish I would say just as a reminder we're starting with the s starter and ending with a
00:29:00.600
like with a period um which feels really rigid but people very much appreciate
00:29:07.559
it g go back there we use a parking lot in our meeting and I think I heard you
00:29:13.000
say that you suggest using the parking lot items for separate meeting uh I'm
00:29:19.080
just curious why you think that's a good idea yeah it's just a matter of when you want to revisit the park like if the
00:29:24.159
purpose of the meeting isn't to address the things in the parking lot now the parking lot doesn't always have to be addressed through a separate meeting
00:29:30.200
right sometimes it might be like okay we're we can take these things to a slack thread um or if there's time at
00:29:36.360
the end of the meeting it could be like okay we have five parking lot items like which of these do we want to spend the
00:29:42.399
10 extra minutes that we have in this meeting moving into um but you generally don't want to try to the parking lot is
00:29:49.480
specifically like these are things that are not relevant to this meeting so you
00:29:54.519
don't necessarily especially if the meeting is going to like go over time or things like that you don't want to dive
00:30:00.080
into the parking lot for that reason and with that I think that I'm overtime actually
00:30:06.440
so uh thank you all