Sasha Romijn

Helping communities & products thrive

Helping communities & products thrive

by Sasha Romijn

In the talk titled "Helping communities & products thrive," Sasha Romijn addresses the need for empathy in technology and community building. Romijn opens with a story about a scam that seems laughably obvious to many but preys on vulnerable individuals, pointing out how easy it is for us to overlook the diverse experiences of others. They emphasize that technology creators must consider the implications of their products on all users, especially those with varying abilities and backgrounds.

Key Points Discussed:
- Empathy and Understanding: Romijn highlights the importance of empathizing with different users, such as the elderly or those with memory issues, who may fall prey to scams and technology failures.
- Personal Experiences: The speaker shares their background in the Django community and the struggles they face as a non-binary individual, driving home the point that understanding diverse backgrounds is crucial in tech spaces.
- Codes of Conduct: Romijn advocates for the establishment of codes of conduct in communities to ensure that everyone feels safe and welcomed. They address skepticism about these guidelines and clarify the difference between malicious intent and ignorance.
- Community Dynamics: There’s a focus on the need for representation and inclusivity in tech, illustrating how varied experiences contribute to better design and discussions.
- Real-Life Examples: Romijn cites examples where technology failed to serve its users appropriately, like geolocation issues causing police harassment or health apps neglecting essential data for marginalized groups.
- Encouraging Dialogue: The talk underscores the importance of sharing personal narratives to build understanding and connection among community members.

Conclusion and Takeaways:
Romijn concludes by emphasizing the complexities of empathy and responsibility in tech design, encouraging attendees to engage in conversations that foster inclusivity. They remind us that everyone is on a learning journey and making mistakes is part of that process. Ultimately, the responsibility lies with each individual to contribute to a compassionate and understanding community that values every voice, paving the way for innovation that truly serves all users.

00:00:09.740 Thank you. So last week, I received this email with an incredible offer, and I read it several times because it seemed too good to be true. Apparently, this guy was managing a bank account belonging to the late Muammar Gaddafi of Libya, and there was 20 million euros in the account. If I worked with him to get the money out of Libya, he'd give me half of it. All I had to do was send him some money in advance to help free up the funds. It sounds a little touchy, but getting 10 million for it is pretty good, right? Of course, as most of you have already figured out, this is a scam.
00:00:43.380 If I give this person the money, I'll never hear from them again. It's so obvious; what kind of idiot would even fall for this scam? The very idea that someone might fall for it is laughable to many of you. When I started telling that story, I bet some of you figured out I was going to make a joke. But the thing is, people do fall for these scams and many others like it, such as phishing emails that are full of typos. The reason this is funny to you, and that you don't see how others fall for it, is that we fail to be empathic towards the different kinds of people who use technology and experience these scams. These scams aren't for you or for any of us; they are aimed at people, for example, who have dementia or other memory issues.
00:01:19.170 These are also some other factors that make it harder for them to understand what's going on, which makes it challenging for their families to train them. While these people are losing their money, people fall for these scams every single day, and to a room full of individuals like us—those who built the technology that makes this possible—these victims are just the punchline of a joke. Sometimes, it makes me feel disheartened. This technology has such massive power and potential to change the world, and as a community, we're squandering it by showing the rest of the world that we aren't worth it.
00:02:04.860 I hate it, and this frustration is stronger than how I feel most of the time. I don't always feel this negative, and I am being a little harsh because you aren't individually responsible for making these scams possible. But when we design products, code, conferences, or communities, we make them not just for ourselves but for others as well. The values we instill in them set examples for others, meaning we have a responsibility to be empathic toward other people's needs and situations. This is really hard to manage, and we do it very poorly because these challenges are complex; none of us can solve them alone.
00:02:36.120 However, each of us has a chance to make an impact. In this talk, I want to show you some of the why and the how. So, I'll jump right in. This is my first-ever Ruby conference. If you see me on Twitter, you might recognize me as one of the two squirrels. I have a long story behind that. Day-to-day, I work in Amsterdam doing Python development; I've never written Ruby. I am very involved in the Django community, which is the most popular Python web framework. I'm a Django team member, a conference organizer, part of the Django Code of Conduct committee, and I do a ton of other things.
00:03:17.400 The best way I have ever been insulted on the Internet is when someone called me a neoliberal emotional crusader for caring about people's well-being. One of my other projects is I run a project called Open Source Happiness Packets, which is a simple platform to reach out to people you appreciate or feel thankful for in open source because we tend to express negative things much more easily than the positive ones. We've sent 650 messages so far, and I am sure there are people in this community that you are grateful to or appreciate, so I just want to encourage you to send them happiness packets. It will make a big difference, not just to them but also to yourself.
00:04:03.449 Empathy, as a feeling, is something that nearly all of us share. It could be feeling for someone who is in physical or emotional pain. If you lack any empathy, then your problems are more complicated than I can address in this talk. For instance, if you are working with a developer who has been staring at their screen, uninterrupted, for an hour—typing away while wearing their headphones—you probably know what that's like. They are very busy, focused on something, and this is a poor time to disturb them. Empathy is also definitely not something exact.
00:04:55.570 Our perception of other people's feelings, experiences, and emotions is incredibly incomplete and inaccurate, which means we end up making many errors. It's not just full of errors; it's also biased, as empathy is influenced by our own experiences. When we try to understand someone else and their position, we interpret it through our own lens, carrying our own experiences and emotions. This introduces a significant bias in the process: the larger the difference between our experiences and those of someone else, the more likely we are to make misguided assumptions or cause confusion—or even hurt someone.
00:05:53.050 If we think about the example of working with someone who is focused on their coding with headphones, if you notice this in an office, you probably also recognize other people who disturb you anyway, which leads to frustration. You might think, 'Why don't they get it? Surely, it’s obvious that I’m focused and shouldn’t be disturbed.' It’s easy to feel that way with salespeople or others who don’t share your experience with long, focused work. However, it can be frustrating because the people who do that don’t always realize the impact of their actions; they lack the shared experience that you have. Their inability to empathize doesn’t always indicate malice or intent to disrupt.
00:06:41.740 It's not impossible for them to understand, but just harder for them to remember, even when you tell them. They would need to put in more effort to empathize with someone whose experiences they do not share. This is a super common issue and part of why I'm doing this talk today. It also works both ways; we may feel hurt by those who don’t understand us while struggling to be empathic with their experiences. Once, a friend of mine had a class for people beginning to code. One student had taken the class multiple times but suddenly declared, 'Oh, now I get it.' This person became aware that if you write lines of code from top to bottom, they will be executed in that order.
00:07:32.309 To me, that seems like an obvious concept, so I never would have thought to teach that. It’s one of the reasons I don’t teach beginners because that experience feels so distant and abstract to me; I would lack the empirical understanding needed for effective teaching. There are issues similarly relevant outside of tech as well, such as the Sinterklaas holiday in the Netherlands, my home country. The story is that Sinterklaas is a white-bearded older man who rides on the roofs of homes, and after the holiday, his helpers, who all look identical, are depicted with pitch-black faces to make the point they’ve come down chimneys, which is where the history comes from.
00:08:15.770 This holiday has existed for at least 50 to 100 years in this form. A year ago, there were significant protests against these portrayals as many people recognized the racial implications. While many Dutch people might argue, 'But I didn’t intend for it to be racist,' or 'You could interpret this in a negative way, but we didn’t mean it,' it still represents a worrying connection to racism. The image can easily be tied to the historical visual representation of slaves from the Dutch Colonial past, which is at the very least a coincidence.
00:08:57.510 Whether we mean something in a positive or negative way makes a difference, but it does not excuse the behavior. I do believe there is a significant difference between individuals who behave maliciously and those who simply don’t realize the impact of what they say or do. This leads to the conclusion that there isn’t a binary division; there’s a lot of gray areas, but the distinction is still useful because these are derived from different reasons, and they require a different approach.
00:09:28.180 Let me show you an example. Someone asked if it is safe to use third-party apps to integrate with PayPal, to which someone replied, 'Yes, unless you're taking them from China, Russia, or Nigeria.' I don't consider racial stereotyping in this context as racism, but you wouldn’t be wrong to be suspicious about it. This is a great example of maliciousness or behavior that no reasonable person would argue is okay. These comments are precisely the kinds that would cause people to call me a neoliberal emotional crusader or a leftist tyrant. Another example comes from the Python community mailing lists, where someone mentioned, 'I bet even pro developers have good intentions,' and someone else replied, 'They’re good at hiding it.'
00:10:12.700 This is an illustration of how being in a tech community can be unwelcoming. Imagine you’re forced to write in Perl, perhaps not by your own choice, but rather as part of your job, and now you enter the Python community. This was your first interaction, and it didn’t reinforce a positive view of the community. I believe the people in those conversations weren’t being malicious; rather they didn’t recognize the negative effect their words had. Yet I do want to stress again that intent isn’t magic—doing something out of ineptness doesn’t make it okay. Still, it is different from malicious intent.
00:10:59.700 This is why codes of conduct usually have a range of resolution options. It’s not simply that you did something wrong and are expelled from the community; there’s a spectrum of responses depending on the situation. Speaking of codes of conduct, I am a strong advocate for them. I firmly believe that refusing to adopt one exhibits a lack of interest or awareness in making people feel safe and welcomed in your community. If someone can’t be bothered to confirm that harassment and bad behavior aren’t acceptable and set up a process to deal with such incidents—because they will occur—they are effectively allowing it to happen.
00:11:47.270 Due to my strong views about this, I often find myself in discussions with people who don’t entirely agree, and sometimes I encounter skepticism. Often, the skepticism takes the form of something like, 'Oh, the code of conduct is full of sexism and harassment,' implying that the people involved behave as if savages did before this wave of political correctness. The truth is, people did not act like savages before this political wave, and while being kind and polite should be enough in an ideal world, when I encounter these skeptics, and I share some of my experiences, they often gradually begin to understand how significant this issue is.
00:12:47.580 There’s also a fundamental aspect of community that eludes many of these individuals, which I failed to realize; it underscores why being part of a community is crucial for different individuals. It’s easily overlooked that for people who belong to a minority or an underrepresented group—whether visibly or invisibly—their experience is fundamentally different. Understanding people who are less like you is much harder. But the lack of understanding disproportionately impacts these individuals, and this disparity affects the way we interact with each other in communities.
00:13:32.070 Because our empathy towards other people is so biased by our own personal experiences, if you have a different experience, you may misinterpret events or situations. This projection has implications, particularly as there is an extensive variation with marginalized groups. I can easily forget about other marginalized groups as well; there is significant variation, including intersections of various identities and experiences. It’s also essential to understand that our communities don’t exist in a vacuum. Events occurring outside this room or in the wider world, both within and outside open-source communities, influence how people perceive different issues.
00:14:10.940 What I mentioned applies even if, within conference spaces, we’re all being nice. Things outside might still be worse. For instance, the image displayed is a map of countries where I would face the risk of execution—those in red have legislation for such. Likewise, lighter shades represent places where I might be imprisoned for years due to my status, and the situation is similar in Russia, where discussing this kind of talk could lead to imprisonment. This reflects the reality of being queer in many regions where some countries still condone violence against people who identify as non-straight.
00:14:56.180 That’s an excessively optimistic perspective—reality is actually worse. The U.S. is depicted as green, indicating support for same-sex marriage; however, the current vice president believes I should be tortured into becoming straight. It’s important to note that Chechnya is not marked on this map due to its ongoing situation, where there are literal concentration camps for people like me. Furthermore, I identify as non-binary and within the trans spectrum, facing the daily challenge of simply using the restroom. You may have noticed how many states are making it increasingly difficult for trans individuals to have safe access to bathrooms.
00:15:35.080 Even in Europe, restroom access is unpredictable. Having a gender-neutral bathroom here is a relief, as it removes a stressor for me. I often don’t feel comfortable expressing my gender identity due to traditional expectations, so I have had instances where a bathroom attendant was confused about which restroom I should enter. Thankfully, I haven't encountered any violence directly, but casual harassment and threatening behavior are disturbingly common. Even though it sounds dark, I deal with it, trying to present myself without fear.
00:16:20.350 Despite my struggles, I recognize I have privileges compared to many others. There are so many people facing far worse conditions, and I want to highlight some of the amazing things happening out there, which I’ll touch on later. You might be wondering why I'm sharing this with you and why it's important. I believe it's very likely that no one in this room wants to harm me or anyone else because of sexuality or gender identity, yet even when everyone is being nice, those negative experiences don't just disappear when entering this conference.
00:17:04.020 They linger within us. Past experiences can make it more challenging to feel welcomed, included, or safe. This doesn’t apply just to typical marginalized groups but people with a history of abuse, making it particularly difficult for them to trust others. We need to understand that when someone has had negative experiences before, they might find it hard to interact with others. I shared a tweet recently that expressed a sentiment I think many of us could relate to; it expressed how there’s nothing worse than unwarranted negativity playing in your mind.
00:17:49.210 Even if everyone around is kind, the feelings remain pervasive. This response from people who have been marginalized and underrepresented highlights that merely not experiencing hostility doesn’t guarantee that they feel included. This challenge is not only to avoid harassment but also to actively create an environment in which all feel secure—especially to gain trust from individuals who have faced discrimination and look to participate in our communities.
00:18:34.080 There are definitely still parts of tech that lack welcoming environments, such as the Linux kernel. I had an extensive list of examples when drafting this talk, but I needed to cut several for time. However, the reality is that much of this displeasure and negativity exists. Even as we do our best to be kind and considerate, it doesn’t mean we’re discharged from the responsibility to understand the nuances of inclusion. We have to recognize there’s a difference in privilege and understanding.
00:19:19.500 It applies to myself, just as much as to anyone else, and we have to acknowledge that aiming for inclusivity is essential. Even if you’re part of a marginalized group, you are still capable of biases within the communities you inhabit. These are important issues we cannot simply opt out of. Being in a situation where some feel comfortable saying, 'I'm here for the code' means neglecting that we’re part of something bigger, the emotional weight of our community.
00:20:14.250 Every interaction with others matters; they shape our communities and significantly impact how we develop products and designs. Each element sets examples of values for those entering this space—for the reasons I believe encouraging diversity and inclusivity in every aspect of our work is paramount. The greater the differences among our teams, the better we can empathize with others as well.
00:20:56.660 I’m not just speaking about race or gender, which are often discussed, but also about health status, income, housing, education, and so on. It is an ongoing process to strive for more inclusive hiring practices. We should aim for teams that add diversity rather than fitting into the existing culture because it holds a huge value when hiring practices lead us to well-rounded teams.
00:21:38.080 While I don’t dismiss my position of privilege, I do find it challenging to be sensitive enough to understand the experiences of those individuals. Having diverse people in a team helps reveal perspectives in ways we may not have considered. Designing products in teams lacking empathy is more likely to create offerings that reflect only the needs of their creators and poorly align with those outside of their experiences.
00:22:39.586 This scenario has real consequences. A case in point: a family in Kansas experienced repeated police raids due to a geolocation database misidentifying their address. These individuals had no understanding of how technology operated, resulting in their home becoming a site of continuous harassment and fear as a consequence of a distant, careless programming error.
00:23:32.669 There’s also the case of Apple’s health app that failed to account for half the population's tracking of menstruation while including obscure metrics irrelevant to others. These lapses happen when people are hired to create products that serve them without considering diverse experiences. Security is often marred by assumptions and blind spots—this neglect goes unaddressed to people's detriment.
00:24:21.690 For example, with the security breach on Ashley Madison, the people impacted were not solely those seeking discretion in cheating. Many were vulnerable individuals who, in an unsafe world, may have faced heavy ramifications for merely existing. These scenarios illustrate the weight of our responsibility in preserving safety and dignity among those for whom we build technology.
00:25:03.190 Representation plays a crucial role within our communities; seeing someone reflecting our identity encourages belief in self along with their capabilities. This is vital, particularly for those with histories that have conditioned them not to believe they're capable of specific accomplishments, which compound isolated feelings and prevent participation.
00:25:47.930 I openly share my identity and story, hoping to connect with at least one other individual in this audience. I want to showcase that appearance does not always determine one’s potential. My experiences serve to demonstrate that people like myself have achieved success and can contribute meaningfully despite obstacles. I find joy in observing that others may feel freer to express themselves through their own non-traditional expressions after seeing someone like me breaking norms.
00:26:30.160 The essence of being a role model lies in recognizing that it doesn’t take many individuals to catalyze change; just one can have substantial effects. This resonates throughout the community and encourages participation from those who might have hesitated, creating a ripple that fosters inclusivity and engagement.
00:27:37.409 As I mentioned earlier, one way to make a significant impact in this space is to be a hearer, stepping in when opportunities arise. More often than not, those who witness hurtful comments or actions can play a pivotal role in addressing them—not always relying on the victim to speak up themselves. This responsibility is shared throughout our communities and should extend to every individual evident in interactions.
00:28:34.689 It’s a hurdle to expect representation across all groups; however, anyone can uplift conversations around accessibility and recognition, especially for those marginalized. We don’t have to maintain a large-scale initiative; sometimes subtle actions can catalyze significant change. Just like this conference, which chose to include attendees’ needs in their meal offerings, such considerations create inclusive spaces where asking questions feels safe.
00:29:20.130 Setting expectations for behavior and interactions helps reinforce the message that creators are accountable and committed to protecting individuals within their environments, thus fostering an atmosphere of trust and respect. As I’ve discussed today, many people are vulnerable to the actions, words, and technology we build. These issues often affect individuals in ways we might not always immediately compute, so remaining attentive to others with whom we interact is central.
00:30:27.570 Many of the situations I’ve relayed today concern individuals who might feel neglected or forgotten. I can only introduce a small aspect of the larger story; countless narratives require more exploration. We gain understanding and empathy every time someone offers a story, helping to broaden our context and awareness. When I initially wrote this talk, I hoped to provide a simple list of 10 things to help you be more empathic.
00:31:07.620 However, as I evaluated this subject, the complexities began to reveal themselves—people’s experiences are not one-dimensional. I tried not to present a list of actions to become empathic but instead serve as an inspiration to think about the experiences of others with different backgrounds.
00:31:39.170 To think critically about how various situations may affect those from different backgrounds helps cultivate understanding. I hope these reflections inspire you to share stories which can provide comfort to others, emphasizing the value in every voice and experience shared.
00:32:19.060 This openness is a form of vulnerability, something we tend to shun, believing it to be dangerous; yet vulnerability can birth joy, creativity, and belonging. I emphasize that it’s perfectly acceptable to establish boundaries and prioritize your safety without feeling guilty for maintaining personal boundaries. It's equally crucial to remember you are not alone in this journey—you can share your struggles and seek support.
00:33:05.940 In conclusion, none of this is simple. I initially thought it might be easier before preparing this talk; however, it has shown me how many gray areas exist. Compassion and empathy are most valuable when challenges arise, creating opportunities for learning and growth. It is also crucial to be gentle, whether with ourselves or others, as we navigate through these collective challenges.
00:34:03.180 We will undoubtedly make mistakes along the road toward improving our empathy and understanding. Confronting mistakes offers us valuable insights essential to understanding the impact of our actions and fostering a willingness to improve the experiences of all around us. I invite you to see these circumstances as opportunities for reflection and growth.
00:34:54.850 Thank you very much.