00:00:13.320
uh it was 3 days we were are here at the conference so actually today it's a wrap
00:00:19.720
up uh how do you feel about that yeah uh you know compared to the other
00:00:24.960
conference especially for the Ruby kite in Japan last month and uh it's small
00:00:30.240
conference but U you know the being small is not really a bad things and uh
00:00:36.840
uh this conference btic Ruby was you know the flandria and then then we can
00:00:44.360
you know see our face you know each one can uh I can recognize the everyone's
00:00:51.039
face you know at only3 people and then probably the attendees can take photo
00:00:59.160
with me if every attendee can uh are possible to make photo with me so that
00:01:04.920
that that kind of the you know the intimacy and C is is kind of good
00:01:10.080
attribute of the conference probably the btic kby will grow in the future and but
00:01:16.520
I want keep that kind of the attitude forever for the public will be thank you
00:01:23.960
um so cruising around and we had a lot of conversation with with people during the conference and um I was asking them
00:01:31.840
is there any specific questions you want to ask mats is there something that
00:01:38.079
apart from just like networking and it looks like the the
00:01:43.880
main point was that people wanted to know a little bit more about yourself so it's not just about you as the creator
00:01:52.000
of Ruby but also you as a person and um and so we prepared a couple of questions
00:01:58.240
for you so and like with everybody is going to be watching uh there is going to be like three blocks so one a little
00:02:04.640
bit about yourself the second one about like your professional
00:02:10.599
uh career path and like the Future Vision and about ruby of course uh
00:02:17.200
community and Ruby and the future of the Ruby and I hope we can make it like 30 minutes something like that so the the
00:02:24.879
first question let's start if you comfortable with the the the personal one yeah I I think that's the most
00:02:30.720
interesting having a lot of like roles and responsibility for core language the
00:02:37.879
whole team plus Community uh might keeping you busy but
00:02:44.920
how do you manage having work and life balance between your work and your
00:02:50.560
family between conferences and travel supporting Community answering questions
00:02:57.159
and at the same time being home being father taking home responsibilities how
00:03:03.599
do you manage to yeah at the very early stage of the
00:03:08.879
development and I did everything you know I designed the language I
00:03:14.040
implemented the language and I push some kind of the article to the the news
00:03:20.159
groups I I wrote the we uh the blog
00:03:25.599
articles or I did everything that's from implementing to to promotion but uh you know it's it
00:03:35.840
is too much it was too much so that uh I as community grows I
00:03:43.560
gradually you know give past responsibility to others because and I
00:03:51.280
cannot do everything and I cannot do everything well so the uh first of all I
00:03:57.799
passed the you uh the responsibility of release
00:04:03.000
management to the other guys the the cause was you know I made
00:04:11.360
some serious mistake in the release in the past that there I don't remember the version number but like
00:04:18.120
1.4 or something and I forgot to add the newly added file in the
00:04:25.560
theack arch file and then and then so I I had to to re-release the version 20
00:04:34.800
minutes later or something like that and then uh you know I'm not really a you
00:04:42.520
know the person and I'm not very good at uh the bookkeeping or you that that can
00:04:49.680
work that uh so soon after that someone
00:04:54.880
raised his hand and take part of the the release management and then uh soon
00:05:02.280
after that the you know the for example the
00:05:08.160
event organizers and yeah Community Management or you know the meet up uh
00:05:15.000
organization or something like that can spontaneously happens everywhere so that
00:05:23.160
my burden to manage uh the community is reduced a lot so that
00:05:30.360
so the people people understand my my personality started to understand my personality and especially in the court
00:05:37.120
team so the so they take care of the things I'm not very good
00:05:43.280
at so that uh yeah so that my burden has been reduced
00:05:48.880
in the those years and then uh but what what if you can give to
00:05:58.360
people a delegate mhm something what do you keep for yourself what is your main
00:06:04.240
things now that you're working on uh the I didn't I didn't delegate the decision
00:06:10.599
making because the uh what makes Ruby Ruby is not really described in the in
00:06:19.280
the in the world and it is kind of vague image the only inside of my brain so
00:06:27.599
that uh you know that kind of the decision making and defining uh defining what
00:06:36.759
ruby is Ruby or the you know providing the vision for the the language's future
00:06:44.000
and then and then gave a presentation for to
00:06:50.039
you know guide a lead Community for the and prepared for the future or something
00:06:56.960
that that is my you know in replace role in the community I think and I've
00:07:03.840
seen during those three days of the conference you were coding yeah so you keep coding and uh do you code only for
00:07:11.479
Ruby parts or do you code other projects uh for for those three days I I called
00:07:18.680
in R Ruby I called R Ruby Ruby yeah uh the the canal Ruby C Ruby is uh you know
00:07:27.280
mostly driven by the contributors most of them are smarter than me as a
00:07:32.319
programmers then you know the by those contribution so that the I
00:07:40.440
mean that be become faster and more powerful and I really appreciate that
00:07:48.800
and but as a programmer I wanted to play you
00:07:55.960
know a role as a programmer but uh sh will be become more and more complex and
00:08:03.560
more and more you know serious and I I I I don't think I
00:08:11.199
can play with it and so that's one of the reason I started the M project some
00:08:19.520
10 something years ago but at this stage being a a designer of the language uh
00:08:28.440
you des and the vision that you mentioned you keep it for like the overall Ruby and then it goes to the
00:08:34.519
different implementation I mean the Ruby itself the vision how it's going to evolve like let's say the Ruby 4.0
00:08:41.279
that's the vision that you translate to the community and then the C Ruby it's
00:08:47.120
the different people who Implement that while you still using M Ruby as as your
00:08:53.000
own project there yes would it be right to say that m m Ruby the version of Ruby
00:09:00.800
that you do is a design prototype for C Ruby no okay but they go hand to hand do
00:09:08.040
you see that they will go along or they will they will go along and because of the you know the target is different the
00:09:15.079
C Ruby is the you know the canonical Ruby and everyone use see Ruby and some
00:09:20.240
people still uh probably use J Ruby or something and then because it's most
00:09:26.839
most powerful and the future futury and then MB is Target to the smaller
00:09:32.160
devices like a microcontrollers or the uh sometimes it is embedded in other
00:09:37.680
application like games web servers or something and uh in that sense the the
00:09:44.279
resource are resources limited so that sometimes the we can drop off some uh
00:09:51.640
buildin Fe features from Ruby to the for example we can drop off the regular
00:09:58.200
expression or some The Meta programming feature or even uh MB can drop the
00:10:05.360
p and or EVO function to reduce the the
00:10:11.519
memory footprint so that uh that kind of things the the target audience is to
00:10:18.079
clearly different using your own approach when
00:10:23.240
people submit something to uh to Ruby yes uh and in order to be a accept it
00:10:30.760
you usually ask for use cases yeah so what would be the best use case for U so
00:10:35.839
you can you give it back uh yeah MB use case is for the As I said small devices
00:10:43.079
like uh some people embed MB and keyboards mechanical keyboards uh or
00:10:50.800
some people embed MB and say the micro
00:10:56.200
satellite fly over the Earth microsat yes and it's it's it's happened already
00:11:03.760
I it's happened already yeah we s 30 something uh satellites are going around
00:11:10.399
right now and there is Ruby yeah Ruby P and Ruby P so we can say it's Ruby on
00:11:16.680
orbit y okay and then uh some people try to
00:11:23.279
drive the the payment device like you know the credit card things in MV in
00:11:29.000
some uh a company in Brazil try to create one and uh some games
00:11:36.279
uh some indie games and some you know publish publisher game uh embed already
00:11:43.440
like the most famous one was near and the and the other games
00:11:50.680
in and I know from conference to conference uh people bring uh
00:11:56.399
specifically in Japan Ruby Ki and and others people bring some devices to
00:12:01.720
Showcase yeah yeah um but let me slightly push us back to
00:12:08.639
the to the initial question between your personal and uh professional life do you
00:12:15.800
work from home or do you go day by day by office uh I usually work from home
00:12:21.560
and uh especially after the pandemic do you follow do you find it convenient for
00:12:27.440
you because like you usually when you need need to do commute from office and back you can feel refresh a little
00:12:33.880
because when you get up uh at at home uh
00:12:39.360
you immediately get to the office so it's very hard to distinguish where is home and where is office so what what is
00:12:46.959
your like day byday routine um some people mentioned that in the previous
00:12:52.399
interview you said you have uh pets do you have uh what what pets do you have
00:12:57.880
dogs uh I have dog dog and cat yeah dog and a cat what what is their names uh
00:13:03.399
the dog is co uh named after the Ki Co and then the the cat is spin out
00:13:12.920
spin out after the name of Jo oh okay and do you walk the dog in the
00:13:19.600
morning like yeah yeah you get up yeah I I get up and I got the I get the breakfast and then I start walking for
00:13:28.199
30 minutes in the morning morning and the other 30 minutes after uh before the
00:13:33.440
dinner the one walking so at least I give you some ref refresh refreshment
00:13:39.800
for for the day yeah and then you know I I avoid some some I I lose some weight
00:13:49.199
and stress because even if you sit like the whole day on the computer getting out yeah really kind of a uh can release
00:13:56.560
the like stress that you can accumulate specifically like having pets oh that's very nice uh and do you have kids yeah I
00:14:04.279
have four kids how old they are uh the the oldest one is 31 okay 31 30 27 and
00:14:16.199
19 I think at this stage like almost everybody would be ask your question do
00:14:22.480
they related to Ruby do they do anything related to R jobs and yeah none of them
00:14:28.600
have own interest in programming so that okay but have you ever thought what was
00:14:34.160
the reason like because you were the you know role model for them from their
00:14:39.680
childhood and I bet you you would explain them like that Ruby is the
00:14:45.079
language that you created and there is people who use that so uh but they don't
00:14:51.240
do Ruby right so they are not they don't even programs what what's their professions because they're all grown uh
00:14:57.680
the old problem is the work as the the kindergarten teacher the second one the
00:15:02.920
the occupational therapist oh yeah third one is right now working as a missionary
00:15:08.160
in the church then the youngest one is now in school to become a uh dental
00:15:15.880
hygienist so it's more from the side of you know human related and like really
00:15:21.959
valuable for uh for society roles very interesting do you consider Ruby being a
00:15:27.800
fifth CH child yeah sometimes some is there any different like um because like
00:15:34.399
being a father like as soon as you started being a father you canot change your role model it's more respons like
00:15:41.880
more responsibility uh a little bit different approach how you explain things how you
00:15:47.480
teach how how do you interact with with kids do you have any outcomes from being
00:15:53.480
a father to being a community leader
00:15:59.000
like being more passionate being more nice like is there any like correlation
00:16:04.839
or any connections you can find like being a father and being a community leader h
00:16:11.680
um it's kind of difficult for the you know the observe some you know
00:16:19.560
the Fairly objects myself but uh I
00:16:26.000
think the you know being the father I have to treat them and my children and
00:16:34.319
the community members as a and know individual uh
00:16:39.639
in individual existing and with the the clear will and
00:16:47.240
then they have feelings they have will and then they have you know they have
00:16:52.720
their backgrounds so that um so I have
00:16:58.160
to resp respect their you know uh feeling and
00:17:03.760
willingness so so you cannot force them to do yeah I
00:17:10.120
cannot force them you know if Ruby Community is a say company so that I I
00:17:17.280
think I can have the some kind of the you know the management order to the
00:17:23.600
member uh because of the you know the company pays them
00:17:29.360
then the company has the some kind of the right to order them for ask them to
00:17:36.080
to do something for company because the company pays them the they out to sus to
00:17:43.840
sustain their lives but in the Ruby community so that they are
00:17:49.799
very you know spontaneously gathered probably due to the know
00:17:56.880
technical curiosity or or you know some kind of the friendship or maybe some
00:18:02.919
kind of the the the hope to become a better
00:18:08.159
programmer or something but we have no Force to to be a member of the community
00:18:17.320
or we cannot force them to become a contributor I just suggest them I I just
00:18:25.600
ask them then and uh for the children the same that CH our children do not
00:18:33.640
choose to be a part of our family they the give from
00:18:39.200
heaven right so the I cannot I want
00:18:44.559
to guide them and I want I have some kind of the expectation for my children
00:18:51.840
but I cannot force them to program obviously but at the
00:18:59.000
same time keeping that um kind of a similarity between family and
00:19:06.039
Community uh do you recognize yourself as I wouldn't say like but no let let's
00:19:13.159
make it straight do you recognize yourself as a celebrity or a star in
00:19:20.320
Ruby community and in the same situation would you consider yourself being like a
00:19:28.200
uh peer to your family so because like
00:19:33.559
obviously people from like Ruby Community across the globe yeah recognize you they it's it's a honor for
00:19:41.520
a lot of people to to talk to you yeah and a lot of people grateful you for what you've done and in this
00:19:48.480
situation when you say I've met mats it for a lot of people even here it means
00:19:56.840
something that could be like life Time Event yeah probably so they want to make
00:20:02.960
a photo kind of stick with that uh but
00:20:09.120
how do you accept that do you really like recognize yourself on that position or you try to push yourself down as a
00:20:15.880
peer because you behave that way like you behave like a very uh equal I would say to everybody
00:20:24.720
and uh and that's and that's what people like and I think that's the similarity back from
00:20:30.400
families so in this situation like do you consider yourself to be like a
00:20:36.080
celebrity or a role model for Community uh actually I I don't consider
00:20:44.039
myself as a celebrity from my heart and uh
00:20:50.760
I accept to be treated like a city like people want to take photo with me and
00:20:58.640
that's okay and then and then people some people want to hear from me in the
00:21:04.400
presentation or or in the interview like this and then they accept that but
00:21:12.799
uh I'm not sure I deserve that but you do and yeah then so that
00:21:22.039
it's it's kind of the difference in the you know self image like a
00:21:30.240
my self recognition is you know a member of the
00:21:37.279
community but somehow they don't treat like treat me like that they they don't
00:21:44.559
treat me like that and but I but uh you
00:21:50.240
know it's probably unly to refuse those treat okay okay I'm a you may remember
00:21:58.240
you don't you don't take photo with me or something like that it's it's not
00:22:03.520
comfortable for both of us so I accept that
00:22:09.520
yeah um thank you um maybe last one yes the the personal question uh it's more
00:22:16.720
about Hobbies so also people ask uh about your hobbies uh aside from uh from
00:22:23.799
programming because like for like software Engineers for us who came from engine in you do coding for work then
00:22:32.159
you go back home you coding for yourself yes because you like it on a weekend you
00:22:37.760
can code with friends if you have any Community meetups or hackaton or whatever so usually when you ask people
00:22:44.640
who do coding and like Ruby people is not exception here like what what are a Hobbies like herey here's my hobby yeah
00:22:51.279
Ruby hobby so do you have any hobbies aside from uh programming and Ruby like
00:22:59.320
uh I I you I used to uh read many books
00:23:04.720
and watch many movies movies and so reading and the watching movie is my I
00:23:10.679
consider it they are my my hobbies but uh the recent days the my free time is
00:23:18.840
getting decrease decreasing uh in it you know my what it
00:23:27.000
the power to conent rate is reducing so that for example I cannot stand the tour
00:23:34.960
movie sitting in front of the screen so that
00:23:40.039
so last two three years the number of the movies I watch in the year is
00:23:46.760
drastically reduced so reduced uh so you you watch less yeah you watch less I I
00:23:52.600
watch less yes and uh probably I watch
00:23:58.799
I don't know 30 40 movies in a year or something but now we have I watch
00:24:06.159
probably one or two in a year oh really so then what would be the movie that you
00:24:13.000
would recommend for somebody or what what is your favorite movie like any that just came to your mind yeah
00:24:19.640
the the my favorite one is the first uh the first one of the Matrix series all
00:24:26.559
no only the first one first okay yeah and then I enjoy the Back to
00:24:32.600
the Future pretty a lot and then uh I recently I read some French movie that
00:24:38.640
was pretty much interesting but I don't remember the name uh title in the English because I I was the yeah that I
00:24:47.520
I was saw the title in Japanese but
00:24:52.919
uh oh you can say Japanese I think we we can later on translate it
00:24:58.880
and the literal translation is the nine translator
00:25:04.120
okay uh okay do you play video games like no I don't play
00:25:09.960
games so it's more like reading and read and watching movies watching movies uh
00:25:15.000
and I also like to read mangas I really love
00:25:20.120
mangas so but that's very I like Japanese that's I think that's part of the culture but do you do you read it I
00:25:26.480
mean like in traditional way or do you read read digital recently we uh I read
00:25:31.559
mangas on on the on on computer on computer yeah so I think that's the first
00:25:39.399
block and I think we're running all good um from the professional point of
00:25:44.520
view um as you said that you still do coding
00:25:49.919
mhm and uh and the coding mostly dedicated to M yes uh what else and like
00:25:58.360
the coding part important then the decision making is hard because I think you need to review consider accept or
00:26:06.039
reject or command back something so how would you structure if we say like on a
00:26:13.000
daily basis like weekly basis uh what percentage of time you
00:26:19.480
spend coding versus like reviewing or making decision or doing even like some
00:26:25.480
other tasks so how would you like shape your like overall responsibilities
00:26:32.120
but not on a like large scale but more like on a scale of a wig let's say uh yeah the biggest thing for that I I
00:26:40.760
sometimes have the confidence like this the Baltic Ruby and then we I have the Ruby Ki Baltic Ruby Euro or Ruby uh Ruby
00:26:49.679
C in the states or something then uh that would take probably a week or something then then during that time
00:26:58.279
time I travel I travel and then the other the usual days I have lot of the
00:27:05.320
meetings because I I do some kind the freelance Consulting work to to our
00:27:11.399
money so you you need to maintain your daily job in other words and like is it
00:27:17.760
half time 30% 40% like how much usually takes you
00:27:24.039
to probably maybe 10% of the working hours 10% but that not that much I think
00:27:32.360
and uh but you still need to maintain that like because that's what makes you leaving right so you need to maintain
00:27:38.640
job because also people interested in the question that usually like and and
00:27:44.399
that's what we have here so is is that mandatory for you to like is it one
00:27:50.320
otherwise would it be enough for you to be just the decision maker for for Ruby
00:27:55.799
to maintain yourself or having job you need to still need to have a job in order to maintain yourself because you
00:28:02.159
need to get salary you you need to have money for Living otherwise so that's
00:28:07.240
kind of the thing that kind of a you need to balance M uh because on one hand
00:28:14.200
Community can support like on GitHub or others yeah if I ask them strongly
00:28:21.720
yes but if you don't at the same time you need to spend some time dedicated
00:28:27.919
your your time for for work for money uh and and like the question here what do
00:28:33.279
you do then for like this Consulting work and what would be the companies that you provide them uh the services
00:28:39.320
they related to Ruby or not related to Ruby uh the most of the companies are web best uh web based and the Ruby based
00:28:45.880
company and uh most of most of the cases I have some kind of the you know the
00:28:54.159
question and answer session with their Engineers so
00:28:59.240
the so so that they can understand Ruby better or the background of the Ruby
00:29:04.679
better and then or maybe we can exchange the information about the new new things
00:29:09.720
in the Ruby Community OR tech tech industry in general or something like that so so those kind of the information
00:29:17.120
exchange can inspire me to so that uh
00:29:22.279
for example the I personally don't do rails at all so that was my next question
00:29:28.559
and then so the you know the communication with the you know the real
00:29:34.480
Ruby users on the real the ra user is is kind of important for me to understand
00:29:41.640
what we what the users need from from
00:29:46.840
Ruby let's say the the project that you mentioned for the satellites and the Ruby was that a commercial project yeah
00:29:54.320
it's a commercial project it's the and that's one of an example right so the consultancy that you can potentially
00:30:00.679
yeah a company yeah a company has the business to to you know launch the
00:30:08.519
satellite and get the information from from them to then sell those information
00:30:14.480
so those pictures and informations to to their clients and the whole system our whole
00:30:22.159
space system is controlled by m yes and I know there is um a number number of
00:30:28.720
countries of course Japan but also United Kingdom that uh have Ruby as the
00:30:36.640
governmental standard for programming so let's say if you go for tenders like the
00:30:43.360
business Tenders in UK and you offering like your services based on Ruby you
00:30:48.840
would you would have like preferences I bet the same for Japan so if let's say
00:30:54.640
governmental sector needs to have a solution MH and there is like a do net or Java and Ruby the preference would
00:31:02.159
would go to Ruby because of the the standardized you know approach from the
00:31:07.559
government maybe true maybe not but at the same time the what's I think the
00:31:12.600
biggest project in Japan that is run Ruby is the railroads is it true or not like I mean uh actually the you know
00:31:22.720
the at least last say last 10 10 years is Ruby is not
00:31:29.399
that popular for the the bigger organization and the companies and in
00:31:36.000
the years from say 2006 to
00:31:41.080
2012 the local governments and and many big companies uh sponsors the our events
00:31:49.559
and the you know the taking you know their preference or to for the Ruby
00:31:55.080
language but those days the they uh relatively do not do not like the to
00:32:03.600
choose Ruby I don't know reason but you know they they prefer more popular
00:32:10.440
programing language like typescript even in Japan specific I don't know I don't know the
00:32:17.240
other country I don't know about the other country but bigger bigger company prefers the japa and
00:32:23.120
cop last November and um at Ruby conference in San Diego yes you you had
00:32:30.240
a keynote talk and um I was also there and uh I made a screenshot uh of your
00:32:36.919
talk where you mentioned that uh and that that year was uh the anniversary
00:32:43.639
for Ruby so it's 30 years of Ruby and you mentioned that like for the next 30
00:32:49.600
Years you won't probably be be the the Whole 30 years
00:32:55.120
maintainer and and you said that you need to find find somebody who will succeed you in that role so how do you
00:33:02.760
see that in fact would it be a person because like you mentioned early that
00:33:08.880
you keep the decision making for the language itself from the high level view
00:33:14.960
uh so when you decide to step out let's say you say okay now I'm ready to take
00:33:23.480
even like decision maker to somebody somebody's hands do you think it's going to be one person or the organization uh
00:33:33.360
it's it is the open question without any the specific answer yet because you know
00:33:41.679
the I'm not going to retire any soon but
00:33:47.960
uh but you know I'm a m mot so that I might die the pre would
00:33:55.000
crash in the in the way to way back to Japan tomorrow or
00:34:01.000
something hope not I I really hope
00:34:06.080
not but you know the even though we don't have any concrete PL for
00:34:13.599
retirement but uh I think we have to prepared in in in at least in some
00:34:22.200
some degree then the that is the reason I
00:34:28.320
you know publish that open question that we have to think about that
00:34:33.960
before I made some something yeah I face something serious but look overall do
00:34:40.919
you think it's going to be one person oh yeah that that that's a problem and uh
00:34:47.359
in in general the any good product to be uh should be led by the the small number
00:34:57.160
of the the decision maker preferably one and then so in that sense the if Ruby
00:35:05.599
has new you know leader at uh one leader
00:35:11.960
to lead the community that that is that is preferable I think but at at the same
00:35:18.800
time the as far as I know the no one in the core
00:35:24.320
Community are willing willing to take take part of my my role because you know
00:35:32.040
the they they join the community to make part of Ruby better for example the the
00:35:39.680
virtual machine faster or the implement the uh improve the garbage G or
00:35:45.119
something like that and then and very few people interest show have shown
00:35:52.040
interest in you know designing the language because if some someone is
00:35:58.400
willing to design language that probably he would
00:36:05.359
start his own programing language you know the designing you know designing language is pretty much
00:36:12.640
interesting in found work but but at the moment the
00:36:18.240
designing existing language is not that fun that I don't want to force somebody
00:36:24.319
to take part of the that not found job it is it is pretty much interesting
00:36:31.160
and exciting for me because I created Ruby but if someone take PR of me it's
00:36:38.960
not I don't think it's really exciting job for him that that that is that is
00:36:47.079
the problem and the second part is that you know the even though that we still
00:36:53.000
keep moving forward and uh but uh you know syntaxial change and or drastical
00:37:00.079
change to language are reduced in those days because the Ruby has enough power
00:37:06.119
Ruby has enough features so that uh we we are very slow at the improving the
00:37:16.560
language and then we are very eagerly working on the improving the
00:37:21.839
implementation and we are you know preparing the many tools and we are
00:37:26.880
improving the performance but we we still improve the language but the pace
00:37:32.800
is slower than the past so that in that sense under that kind of the specific
00:37:39.839
situation so that maybe there some kind of the community work is community can
00:37:47.680
work for the language like like current Ruby but uh I'm not so
00:37:55.079
sure okay yeah I have a lot of undecided
00:38:01.200
issues so you you mentioned today that the very first Ruby conference in Japan
00:38:06.760
where people gathered had a very practical purpose to implement the Ruby
00:38:12.280
jam and then also I know that you and a few core
00:38:17.440
members uh used to have uh travel conferences engaging people to
00:38:23.200
contribute back like explaining how to do that of course contribution is
00:38:29.720
important uh but if we say about like the global Ruby Community the majority
00:38:36.000
of people that we have like people who we have here do you consider them as a
00:38:41.839
consumers of language more or contributors because on
00:38:48.280
one hand being a rails developer and developing web application in most of
00:38:54.160
the cases uh people consuming all the good
00:38:59.319
things that you develop and what you foresee for them like for the future how how language is supposed to be involve
00:39:06.680
evolve but do not having like exposure down to the like language paradigms it's
00:39:13.240
very hard for them to contribute back so they can contribute around their ecosystem they can produce libraries
00:39:18.880
they can do some good things and toolings but in this situation like the Ruby Community for you first of all it's
00:39:26.560
a consumers or contributors
00:39:32.079
uh you know the some years ago I created
00:39:37.160
term rubyist the the definition of the rubyist is the uh the Ruby
00:39:44.880
users who are stronger feeling than meere
00:39:52.440
uses like a you know so the if a person
00:39:58.400
the that who use Ruby has the strong feeling like I like Ruby or the I want
00:40:04.839
to do something for Ruby or okay I I do want to contribute to the Ruby or the
00:40:10.839
degree will will be different from person to person but something stronger than the okay I use
00:40:18.800
Ruby that I call them rubyist then I want more people become rubies from me
00:40:27.680
Ruby user the I want the the member of the community become uh become
00:40:35.920
rubyist and then you don't you don't have to be a COR contributor tomorrow or
00:40:43.800
or you don't have to create gems tomorrow but uh but you want to take
00:40:51.040
part in the Ruby activities like conferences and then maybe all
00:40:57.280
organizing meetups or then maybe writing some kind of the the blog article on the
00:41:05.240
existing gem or somebody try to create their own gem or purade their companies
00:41:12.520
to uh disclose their Library as a gem or maybe you know first a company to
00:41:21.440
sponsors conferences and then then maybe some of them become are core
00:41:28.720
contributors degree were different but that kind of the stronger
00:41:34.839
feeling I I would people that member of the Ruby Community to
00:41:41.720
have that kind of stronger feeling could you give a like let's say
00:41:47.880
if somebody want to contribute and starting from like easy task but
00:41:55.079
eventually let's say if somebody wants to become a core member core member of
00:42:01.040
the ruby of Ruby team what would be their skills required
00:42:07.520
to start contributing would it would it be enough Ruby or is there any C or other
00:42:14.800
languages design or any kind of a background like if you would hire somebody how would you describe uh you
00:42:22.880
know the co contributor
00:42:28.880
have different roles the some some people working on the you know the
00:42:34.599
documentation like out things and then some people uh become the contributor to
00:42:40.400
maintain the gens the bundle gems and then some people are working in the core
00:42:47.280
contributor to maintain the web web servers or the some kind of the you know
00:42:54.520
the the corporation work operation work like a you know the contact with the the
00:43:02.480
companies to to organized the release schedule or something like that and then
00:43:08.119
we have release managers and and some kind other manages and then uh some
00:43:16.000
people are create the you know the tools for Ruby as a contributors so that and
00:43:22.599
the other people write uh the write and prove the very core of
00:43:28.920
rubby language so that uh the we usually call those the C
00:43:35.760
programers the cor contributors but we have bunch of other kind of contributors
00:43:40.920
so that depends on the roles they want the the
00:43:46.040
requirement will will be will differ and then the for
00:43:52.720
the cor core developer who in charge of the implementation of
00:44:00.280
the C be uh usually should be the the C
00:44:06.160
program and then along with the because we are kind
00:44:13.079
of the you know kind kind of big team of the programmers the experienced
00:44:19.160
programmers so that we need uh we require some kind of the communication
00:44:24.440
skill between the tech people and the part of the Ruby is written in Rust
00:44:30.480
especially the wet part and so the rust rust knowledge and scales would help to
00:44:37.640
become a the that contributor to that part of the language what about Japanese
00:44:45.640
language uh the the biggest biggest meeting is held
00:44:52.800
in Japanese so that uh the Japanese ability would help help but not required
00:44:59.760
for example we have lot of the cor contributor do who do not speak any
00:45:05.000
Japanese but uh every dis uh you know agenda of the discussion will be
00:45:11.760
translated japane I mean English and and we have the record and you know the
00:45:21.760
the tasks and the you know the discussions and the res uh conclusion
00:45:28.200
will all descripted in English so that uh the you know the commun commun
00:45:34.720
Japanese communication skill is not mandatory and for documentation as well I mean like it's yeah the every
00:45:41.040
documentation is the you know the English one is the canonical
00:45:46.800
one so you mentioned this term ruist mhm
00:45:52.480
and um apart from that there is a ruby certification yeah
00:45:58.880
exist um at this stage it's not that popular that it could be like taking
00:46:05.480
examples from other languages where people can get a certificate like nowadays uh specifically if you go for
00:46:12.760
like a bigger platforms uh people tend to get different certificates people like to
00:46:18.440
collect different certificates like here is a certificate for kubernetes here is for AWS usage there is like J or
00:46:27.559
whatever Black Belt certification but Ruby still have one yeah and that's a beauty of one hand on
00:46:35.079
the other hand it's um might be hard to convince more people to do that popularize I mean the
00:46:43.400
the certification itself so but at the same time if you hold a ruby
00:46:49.800
certificate uh there is no guarantee that you get get a job like no it's it's
00:46:55.240
a good to have for you personally as achievement but you mentioned that you want to have more Rubi people because
00:47:02.760
it's kind of like a a little bit more deliberate view of who who are the
00:47:08.200
people who use Ruby maybe we need to create another certification for rubies
00:47:13.319
people or maybe not a certification even an award and granted based on the
00:47:19.520
contribution like year after year and uh like to to make the recognition for
00:47:26.040
those activ Community people higher so what do you think about the future for
00:47:31.079
Ruby certification that exist MH are we going to have more certification or more
00:47:36.559
Awards coming from Ruby specifically not from other like Frameworks and so on uh
00:47:42.359
at the time we organized the Ruby association in 2008 was eight I think and uh at the at
00:47:51.800
that time the you know the the big company big tradition tradtion company
00:47:58.400
especially in Japan does kind of the the struggle to you
00:48:05.359
know determine which to hire which engineers and then the I want to provide
00:48:13.160
the information for those suit people to understand who has the skill who has the
00:48:20.200
knowledge of Ruby language so that that's the reason I created the the Ruby
00:48:26.760
C ification so the uh target audience of the the Ruby certification both silver
00:48:34.119
and gold has to prove themselves for you
00:48:40.000
know the traditional companies and suit people and then it works well in the in
00:48:47.000
Japan because of the Japan is very conservative society and uh the the
00:48:53.240
traditional big companies the stronger in Japan but is passed by and we have lot of the
00:49:01.319
startup company in Japan so that those companies do not care about the
00:49:06.559
certification but uh they determine who to hire by engineer to engineer
00:49:14.680
communication so that the you know the responsibility of the
00:49:21.839
certification is decreased compared to the Past like a 2008 or 2009 but uh and
00:49:32.000
uh when I talked with the people in especially in the states so that the
00:49:38.200
those people determined who to hire by uh engineer to engineer communication
00:49:45.280
from the scratch so that there's I did think we did think the the need for the
00:49:53.079
certification is less important in the other countries
00:49:58.839
so that we translated the T question examin examine uh exam to English but but I
00:50:07.400
didn't we didn't promote that much because of that reason so that I we
00:50:13.040
don't think the needs for the certification is not that big in non Japanese
00:50:19.160
countries if but uh you know I we still live in
00:50:26.359
Japan that all member of the Ruby Association is are ja need so that maybe
00:50:31.440
we misunderstood the needs so that if someone needs to have the this
00:50:37.400
certification so that I we would consider about the promoting that and
00:50:43.079
then the having the other certification so that I don't think the needs for the
00:50:49.480
other certification is other certification but U we have the
00:50:57.119
R Association also has a grant programs the we accept the the proposals from all
00:51:03.000
over the country including we we accept the non Japanese people too and then
00:51:09.240
then so that we pay the grant money for the project if they you know accomplish
00:51:18.040
St that the recently yeah probably due to the our
00:51:24.640
laziness for the proom promotion the the number of proposal is not that big but
00:51:31.440
we have if we have more more if we receive more proposals that would be
00:51:38.280
that would be wonderful and then that kind of the gr program would be yeah
00:51:44.280
better better introduction to the qu contributor or something for example
00:51:51.920
the last last year we have four four
00:51:58.040
Grant approved and two of them are planned to be marged into the
00:52:05.160
PO uh is it fuka no not that one the gr from
00:52:10.280
the yeah we have fuka the to okay um I have last question yes so
00:52:18.359
it's about Juniors it's about how to trct new people to Ruby so maybe you can
00:52:24.640
give an advice for for the those Junior people or for people who considering become uh Ruby engineer and
00:52:32.839
finally rubyist how would they start what would
00:52:37.960
be important for them to because like at this stage from my point of view the
00:52:43.640
main problem and the problem and like a proant concept I always have that people try to use shortcuts and the shortcuts
00:52:51.040
for them first to get a first job second being a little bit lazy and not working
00:52:57.799
hard and not studying hard is to start with rails and nowadays we have people who
00:53:04.160
can have their jobs in software development coding rails and not always
00:53:11.079
understand how Ruby Works what would you suggest for people
00:53:16.200
who starting their career in in
00:53:21.280
Ruby what's the easiest way to start how to where to go and what would be the
00:53:27.640
better job for them like the first job um should they join Community or
00:53:34.240
should they find companies who doing like a boot camps and drainers ship and so on and so forth so like a like your
00:53:40.720
advice to newcomers mhm uh that's tough questions uh because you know the I I
00:53:51.200
never be an juner I have self talk program on and I I majored in computer science
00:53:58.200
but you know the I the the programming class was too low level for for was too
00:54:06.520
too low level for me and I learned by myself and and back then we didn't have
00:54:14.720
internet the situation has and libraries where like a physical building when you
00:54:20.119
get and get books to read yeah and I I enter to the library and really so many
00:54:26.559
computer books and and the situation has been so changed so that that's one
00:54:34.559
things and then but only one thing I can say is the you know the Joe is the
00:54:42.680
motivation that people do programming because it's Joy some some people do
00:54:50.839
programming because of the joy and then the other people uh do programming because of
00:54:57.440
and or both and people driven by Joy is more
00:55:06.559
motivated in general then then motivated motivated
00:55:12.839
programmer has tend to be tend to have more skills so that you know the joy is the
00:55:21.319
motivation motivation is skill skill means the uh skill still is the you know
00:55:28.000
the better position and a better position is money that kind of things
00:55:33.720
then so I put Joy first then uh I expect
00:55:40.160
the local meet up to to help Junior because you know you know the having
00:55:47.640
conferences and watching to the the conference talks is probably a little
00:55:54.400
bit tough for juniors but uh uh some kind of the you know communication and
00:56:00.240
the face tof face communication would would help uh
00:56:07.319
programmer become better programmer so that
00:56:12.920
the I think it's the attending to the local Meetup
00:56:19.839
is the one of the best opportunity to know each other and the find the way to
00:56:27.200
become a better programmer get advice get advice and or
00:56:32.880
you know exchange information exchange knowledge um thank you very much it took
00:56:40.640
a little bit longer than we yeah yeah yeah yeah but I think we covered interesting topic uh VI thank you very
00:56:46.799
much for the for the answers and uh yeah we hope to see you uh again maybe not on
00:56:53.400
the next but of course you always welcome but to other Baltic Ruby in the future yeah and uh have a safe life back
00:57:00.760
home yeah thank you and we see you again thank you see you again
