Ben Greenberg

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On Being an Early Career Dev in Your 30s

Ben Greenberg • November 08, 2021 • Denver, CO

In the talk titled "On Being an Early Career Dev in Your 30s," Ben Greenberg discusses the unique challenges faced by individuals embarking on a second career in tech, particularly those transitioning into software development later in life. Drawing from his personal experience of switching from a rabbi to a developer, he emphasizes that while the traditional paths into tech often favor younger candidates, an increasing number of older individuals are navigating this transition. Greenberg outlines practical steps to address the common hurdles encountered during hiring and on-boarding processes for second-career developers, emphasizing community and awareness in improving the situation.

Key Points Discussed:
- Changing Career Paths: Greenberg notes that many older millennials and individuals from diverse backgrounds are leaving their jobs in search of fields they find fulfilling, with the tech sector offering lucrative and rewarding opportunities contributing to the increasing presence of second-career developers.
- Challenges of Transitioning: He addresses the feelings of inadequacy second-career developers might face, such as being perceived as both overqualified and underqualified, which complicates job applications.
- Highlighting Transferable Skills: He encourages leveraging the previous experience rather than fixating on job titles that may carry stereotypes, suggesting that what individuals accomplished in prior roles is more relevant than the titles they held.
- Embracing Humility: Greenberg stresses the importance of humility in learning new skills in a fast-paced environment while not underestimating one’s contributions from previous experiences.
- Understanding Concepts Over Languages: Rather than focusing solely on mastering specific programming languages, he advocates for a conceptual understanding of programming, which makes transitioning easier across different coding environments.
- Manager’s Role and Leadership: He emphasizes the importance of managers adopting a servant leadership approach, lifting their teams, particularly those from non-traditional backgrounds. He also urges for managers to open doors to diverse applicants and to reconsider conventional hiring pipelines that often overlook capable candidates.
- Creating Inclusive Work Environments: Greenberg concludes with a call to action for both candidates and hiring managers to advocate for a diverse and inclusive tech industry where age and prior careers do not hinder opportunities.

In summary, the talk provides valuable insights into navigating a career change into tech later in life, reinforcing the notion that previous experiences are assets and calling for more inclusive practices in recruiting.

On Being an Early Career Dev in Your 30s
Ben Greenberg • November 08, 2021 • Denver, CO

Being early in your career always presents unique challenges, while being early in your second career later in life has its own particular issues to grapple with. The typical pipeline for the software industry does not fit the paradigm of an older career changer, and their presence can often throw the system for a loop.

In this talk, we will cover practical steps for navigating specific challenges related to hiring and being hired as a second-career dev. If approached with intention and thoughtfulness, the benefits can be immense for all involved.

RubyConf 2021

00:00:11.280 Hello everyone! Hi! It's the afternoon, and we need a little bit of energy. I have lost my voice a bit talking to everyone over the past couple of days because I've been so excited to be back at an in-person conference.
00:00:25.599 I don't normally sound like this, but I have been talking non-stop. Today, we're going to talk about paths one can take in life.
00:00:37.520 Oftentimes, there's the more well-trodden path and the less frequent path. When we talk about second career developers, especially later in life, that's the path we're discussing.
00:00:49.600 I know a bit about this from my own personal experience. I started off working as a member of the clergy, as a rabbi, for nearly a decade. Then, about five years ago, I switched and became a developer. I enrolled in a boot camp called Flatiron School and have worked in a couple of jobs since then.
00:01:02.079 I have loved it. I believe this second career path is becoming increasingly conventional. The notion of being a second career transitioner is growing.
00:01:15.360 There are more and more of us nowadays, coming from various backgrounds, including teaching, journalism, sports, clergy, the non-profit sector, bartending, retail, and every field imaginable.
00:01:27.439 People are entering this field for a variety of reasons. For me, one of the things I love about being a developer is the culture of non-stop learning. It’s about always pushing yourself to learn new frameworks and languages.
00:01:41.920 As part of this community, we constantly strive to push ourselves forward. On good days, I feel like I've contributed to something significant. I've helped build something, and that feels like a real accomplishment.
00:01:54.720 In fact, this whole phenomenon is not minor; we are in a period often referred to as the Great Resignation.
00:02:06.960 By the Great Resignation, I mean that people in my age bracket—older millennials, geriatric millennials—are leaving their jobs in huge numbers. The pandemic has accelerated this process.
00:02:19.280 The numbers are incredible. Something like 66 percent of Americans are eager to switch jobs, and while this data pertains to Americans, it can also be extrapolated to other parts of the world.
00:02:33.360 We want to switch jobs for various reasons—we love learning, we value the professional community, and we appreciate the culture surrounding our new career. However, there’s also a very concrete reason for many of us switching into software: software developers earn a lot of money.
00:02:47.360 In 2018, the U.S. Bureau of Labor and Statistics published data showing that the average American salary is around $31,000 a year, while the average software developer salary is approximately $93,000 a year.
00:03:02.560 That’s an enormous disparity. We could spend an entire talk discussing economic disparities, but that is not our conversation today. However, it’s worth mentioning that this earning potential can be life-transforming, even generationally transforming, for people.
00:03:14.880 This shift in careers can change your family in countless ways. Therefore, there’s a huge incentive beyond just learning and culture—it's also about taking care of yourself and your loved ones.
00:03:27.680 However, making this transition can often feel very challenging. I sometimes felt like that yellow peg over there—looking around and seeing everyone integrating smoothly.
00:03:35.640 I'm surrounded by people saying, "Oh, I went to Johns Hopkins, or I went to MIT," while I think, "Well, I was a rabbi; now I'm trying to get a developer job—how do I fit in?"
00:03:45.120 That’s what we’re here to talk about today: the challenges and the methods to navigate this transition, focusing on both the individual perspective and the hiring managers who recruit individuals like us.
00:03:58.360 We need to talk about how to make this onboarding experience smoother with less friction involved, both for us and the hiring managers.
00:04:10.160 Unless we talk about these issues and raise concerns, things will not improve. We can complain to ourselves or debate silently, but without community discussion, nothing will change.
00:04:21.440 We will approach this discussion from two spectrums: one as individual contributors, often represented as IC, and the other as the hiring managers. Managers hold great power; with great power comes great responsibility.
00:04:33.520 When switching careers, especially from established professions, one can feel lost. We have to acknowledge the privilege often involved in this transition.
00:04:44.640 Most of us face a pay cut during the learning phase and even after landing that first job, which can be significant. There's a privilege in being able to afford this shift.
00:04:55.120 Additionally, after years spent rising in another field, it can be disorienting to be back at the bottom of the ladder again in a new domain.
00:05:06.640 It’s daunting to join a workforce where everyone around you knows more than you do, leading to feelings of being viewed as overqualified with resumes often being disregarded.
00:05:19.280 You might find yourself in a situation where you're deemed overqualified for junior positions, yet underqualified in terms of specific software development skills.
00:05:31.920 You're struck in a liminal position, which can be incredibly challenging. That was also my experience during my first management meetings.
00:05:43.680 It's crucial to recognize even if some points seem obvious, your prior experience does count. What you did before matters; you have something to bring to the table.
00:05:54.760 Your resume is not a liability—despite how it may feel at times. So, how can you turn what seems like a liability into a power boost during the application process?
00:06:05.440 What I learned from my mentors in coding school was that what you did matters more than the title you held in those positions.
00:06:18.560 For example, if you were called a high school English teacher, you likely created individualized, measurable sprints for thirty students every quarter.
00:06:31.360 If you were a bartender, you managed ongoing client relationships and iterated on products with your clients in real-time. If you were a member of the clergy, you managed a team of paid and volunteer staff.
00:06:44.880 There’s immense value in that experience, especially in managing and organizing groups.
00:06:57.440 Think about your skills—emphasize what you've done rather than focusing on the titles you've held. Titles matter, but what you did matters even more.
00:07:09.600 At the same time, it's imperative to embrace humility as a second-career developer. There’s a lot we don’t know entering this new field, and while this is true for everyone, being older adds another layer of difficulty.
00:07:21.760 You've built a professional background, developed expertise in other areas, and may feel reluctant to acknowledge what you don't know.
00:07:34.080 Humility does not mean being a doormat; it means recognizing your limits while still understanding that you have valuable contributions to make.
00:07:46.720 Humility is not the same as meekness. Acknowledging that you know what you know is essential, and it's okay to express your knowledge confidently.
00:07:58.800 I often think of a quote from the 19th century ethicist, advising his students to keep two pieces of paper: one saying, 'I am just a speck of dust. I’m nothing,' and the other stating, 'the world was created for me.'
00:08:09.680 These two statements express the tension between being just one person among billions and recognizing your infinite worth.
00:08:21.680 Keeping those notions in tension can be powerful. In short, do not undersell yourself. You really do matter.
00:08:33.920 Another major topic that arises is what to learn in this field. When talking to people entering tech, a common concern is what technology or language to focus on.
00:08:45.760 This field has numerous domains: JavaScript, Python, Ruby, Node.js, Rust, Elixir, TypeScript—each posing a decision dilemma.
00:08:58.960 But I want to suggest that applying concepts is more important than mastering a specific language.
00:09:09.680 During my time in seminary, a teacher would often challenge us: if he stopped you on the street and asked you to explain something, could you do it? This involves taking jargon and nuances and translating them into something others can understand.
00:09:22.320 Understanding Ruby means you can likely understand JavaScript and Python because programming concepts like classes, instances, variables, and arrays remain constant.
00:09:36.080 Your knowledge of concepts is incredibly powerful. Explanation and application add immense value, more than just knowing a single language.
00:09:47.760 Returning to a prior job experience, I was part of a multi-language team and was tasked with reviewing C# code I'd never seen before.
00:10:01.440 I reached out to a colleague familiar with C#, got assistance in setting up the development environment, and was able to review the code based on underlying programming principles.
00:10:13.920 So from the perspective of individual contributors: remember, your prior experiences play a vital role on your resume. Focus on what you did, not just the titles.
00:10:26.320 Be humble, but don’t let yourself be overlooked. Apply concepts over the need to master any specific language or framework immediately.
00:10:38.720 Now let’s discuss the manager’s role, as they are also crucial in this conversation. We need to frame management in a way that is conducive for those joining from non-traditional backgrounds.
00:10:51.680 Management should recognize that leadership entails 'leading from behind,' promoting the people who report to them.
00:11:04.640 True success comes from celebrating those around you; it's genuine management and leadership.
00:11:17.440 This principle is particularly relevant in focusing on non-traditional hires and embracing diverse backgrounds—plucking the egos of your team while building them up.
00:11:30.720 Ego isn’t inherently bad. It's important to maintain a sense of pride regarding your contributions but must be balanced with other values.
00:11:43.360 Adopting a dialectical tension approach creates a dynamic where you acknowledge your worth while also recognizing the diverse experiences of your team.
00:11:56.560 A diverse team not only fosters inclusion but also contributes to better products and tooling. Diversity in race, gender, ethnicity, orientation, and beyond is essential.
00:12:09.840 Building teams in a way that values everyone’s background enhances your organization and creates a culture that fosters innovative thinking.
00:12:23.120 This invites the question about your hiring pipeline. Currently, there are specific pipelines in tech hiring that often neglect various skillsets.
00:12:36.400 When opening roles, the question often becomes: did you begin coding at eight? If so, congratulations and welcome to the team. Such narrow perspectives are fundamentally broken.
00:12:51.040 The second pipeline often favors graduates from specific schools with computer science degrees. If a person has that background, they may be hired without regard for the broader competencies they possess.
00:13:07.440 We need to reevaluate this approach and acknowledge what doors we are opening every time we consider hiring, especially concerning diverse candidates.
00:13:20.000 Assessing our pipelines means thinking critically about who we want to bring on board. If your recruiting efforts are not inclusive, that’s a problem.
00:13:33.040 Recruiting meetings should kick off discussing what doors we are opening, as no one walks through closed doors.
00:13:45.920 Decisions to hire should enable individuals to walk freely into new roles, not require audacity beyond what anyone else might face.
00:13:58.960 Recapping from the perspective of the manager: embrace servant leadership, prioritize uplifting others, and appreciate that diversity fuels better team dynamics.
00:14:13.520 Maintain a healthy balance with your ego and broaden your hiring pipeline to welcome previously overlooked talent.
00:14:27.360 Another principle worth highlighting is that it’s not your duty to finish the job entirely; instead, your daily commitment to engage in this journey is vital.
00:14:44.960 If you're a second career developer and have navigated these waters successfully, it’s crucial to lend your voice in team discussions.
00:15:00.320 It’s essential to clear the path for those who come after you—making the journey smoother as more and more people join this wave.
00:15:15.600 Thank you very much!
00:25:25.679 We have two minutes and 32 seconds for questions, if there are any. If not, I love you all.
00:25:32.720 Yes?
00:25:43.120 How would you say your experience as a rabbi has influenced your move to development? What skills would you say you've brought over and what would you emphasize?
00:25:59.279 That's a good question. I would say that my focus on the human aspect is perhaps the most significant influence. I always consider the people involved—whether they're present or not.
00:26:17.360 This aligns closely with the 'soft skills' necessary for fostering empathy in tech environments and cultivating inclusivity.
00:26:28.960 Yes?
00:26:36.640 Given age bias, how important is it to aim for a team lead or management position if entering in your 30s?
00:26:44.200 I want to make it explicit that age should not define your career aspirations. If you want to focus on coding without supervision, that's perfectly acceptable at any age.
00:27:05.440 Management must create spaces that are inclusive of all aspirations, ensuring every role is accessible to individuals of any age.
00:27:13.360 Thank you for the excellent question. It's incredibly important to keep this dialogue open and inclusive!
00:27:25.840 Thank you!
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