RailsConf 2017

Panel: Developer Happiness through Getting Involved

RailsConf 2017: Panel: Developer Happiness through Getting Involved with Polly Schandorf, Sarah Me, Sean Marcia, &Terian Koscik

We have amazing skills and abilities, but for a lot of us the missing piece is finding a way to give back. We have an amazing panel of people who have used their skills and talents from both previous careers and current to make the world a better place. Learn how they got involved, and in turn what you can do to get involved in areas you’re passionate about to fill this missing piece that will keep you happy throughout your career.

RailsConf 2017

00:00:11.960 hi thank you so much for coming we've got a really great panel of people who have some wonderful information to
00:00:18.330 share with you we all know since we're here today to talk about developer
00:00:23.609 happiness and we all know that the best way to make developers happy is kitten
00:00:30.480 right very very cute kitten so we have to include some kitten but we beyond that
00:00:39.239 we can get involved in our community and giving up your time to do a great thing
00:00:45.090 for somebody else is a really awesome way to keep you happy and keep you from
00:00:51.480 burning out in your job I'm lucky to have these wonderful panelists to give us some information about how to get
00:00:57.539 started so I'm Holly Shan Dorf during my last week of boot camp I went
00:01:04.799 to a an event called Ruby for good and it's a three-day sort of retreat and we
00:01:13.049 work on projects for nonprofits during the day and then we have dinner together and in the evenings we play games we
00:01:21.240 meet people we build community we find mentors that's where I found my mentor
00:01:26.490 and it's just a really amazing place to be and so I met some of these people
00:01:33.000 through Ruby for good and I was really excited about that experience I've gone
00:01:38.070 several times this year I'm actually going to run a project and it's just something I feel really passionate about and I wanted to share with some of you
00:01:44.700 guys so I'm going to have that panelists introduce themselves hello I'm Terry and
00:01:54.180 Kasich and I met Polly at Ruby for good and also Shawn and some other people I
00:02:01.110 think here from Ruby for good I work for github and other ways that I get
00:02:06.149 involved are iMac organizer of jingle girls in Portland and what also I do I
00:02:12.959 write intro intermediate programming workshops like one is coming up later today hey
00:02:22.290 I'm Sean I organized that roofer getting but this is just a for good panel so I
00:02:30.680 work for the government I try to make things better for the government despite the new person in
00:02:37.829 charge hi
00:02:50.480 whoa hi I'm Sara I have actually no connection to Ruby for good at all I've
00:02:57.359 never been it's been on my list of things to do for years and I've never actually been to it maybe maybe next
00:03:02.549 year this year it's during the last week of school for my kids so always something Oh connection yet right I am
00:03:13.650 the chief consultant at deaf mind and my non-profit work tends to take the form of this conference and rubyconf I am
00:03:23.310 part of the organizing team for that and I also in 2009 founded an organization called rails bridge which was one of the
00:03:30.750 first groups that started to do workshops aiming to get women in under
00:03:36.419 other sort of under represented folks into the rails community through workshops and so since then there's been
00:03:43.139 a lot of other groups that have taken that model and done really interesting things with it both within the Ruby
00:03:48.299 community like with rails girls but then also outside of the Ruby community so for example the Django girls is a
00:03:54.660 similar idea there have been similar ones for like JavaScript and so on and recently we formed an umbrella
00:04:02.099 organization because if you're a developer you don't really want to figure out how to be a for nonprofit
00:04:08.340 organization you just want to do a workshop right and so now we've got an umbrella organization so now we've got
00:04:14.569 we've got like go bridge and mobile bridge and we just did a first scala bridge so we've been trying to help
00:04:22.380 other communities take that model and do that also
00:04:32.700 so now we're going to chat I just have everyone's names up there so we can remember so Sarah can we start with you
00:04:39.280 and can you give us all some advice on how do we figure out something to get started with I mean I guess yeah so it's
00:04:50.230 a really interesting question I think that for me I wanted to I wanted to
00:04:56.470 create the workshop that I wish had existed a couple years previously so I
00:05:01.540 was coming back into the workforce after my daughter was born and I had been a
00:05:06.970 Java developer and I had a couple years gap on my resume and suddenly no one
00:05:12.460 would interview me and it was like I know wouldn't it be awesome if there was like a workshop where I could direct all
00:05:18.820 of my mom friends that are in like very similar situations once they get to the point where they want to work again so they could update their skills and then
00:05:25.930 they could come back into the workforce and do this like hot new thing and so that's that's where railsbridge
00:05:31.660 basically came from for me was like I want this to I wish that hitted the City existed two years ago so I think I want
00:05:37.960 to make it now and that's where a lot of the motivation for my stuff comes from
00:05:47.340 sure um I I'd like to say too that it's really easy to get involved like you
00:05:53.110 don't need like if you're right in if you're even if you're in a bootcamp like you you have the skills right now like
00:05:58.660 nuts like you know like we've worked with a lot of nonprofits and generally
00:06:04.240 like the kind of things we're building them or just like really really simple like crud apps like we're replacing
00:06:09.960 processes that are you know being done on pen and paper and like just just
00:06:15.430 horrible processes like I could tell stories oh just make your heads I'll shake as far as getting started
00:06:25.560 volunteering my experience like coming out of college like really really
00:06:30.880 wanting to get involved in like getting more women and other runners represented folks edittext I just went to a million
00:06:37.090 meetups and like asked people who needed help and that was a little too much initially but
00:06:43.010 I went to all with meetups I like found out the things that I like doing the things I did not like doing and did more of the things I liked and
00:06:50.120 lots of things I didn't like I think that's a really good point so finding things that spark your fire
00:06:57.410 and get you excited are really good ideas so Tyrion have you ever
00:07:03.680 experienced some obstacles getting involved in something that you were excited to get involved with but then
00:07:09.110 you came across some obstacles and what did you do I guess obstacles I the first
00:07:16.250 groups that I got involved with were mostly dealing with getting young girls
00:07:21.560 interested into tech which I really care about but I realized after doing that for a couple years that I do not have
00:07:27.169 the energy level for getting little girls into tech and like keeping them away from scissors and all that fun
00:07:33.169 stuff so that's kind of obstacle ultimately now I work with grown women
00:07:39.500 who know how to use scissors so like an obstacle or like a learning situation I
00:07:45.950 guess is what I would call that yeah I
00:07:51.020 think for me I started out in my volunteer work by doing working with an organization that does like a summer
00:07:56.900 camp for high school girls and it was really rewarding in some ways but then
00:08:02.360 on the other ways like it was they wanted me to write a curriculum for a class and then you know I again in a
00:08:11.060 similar situation it was like I didn't you know I high school girls are their own sort of species I feel like almost
00:08:17.840 and I almost have one so I'm yeah I was going to be exciting my daughter's 11 right now and I found
00:08:26.030 that it there was a lot for me to learn just about dealing with kids and at the
00:08:31.760 same times I was trying to learn about how do you teach technical topics because I had not done that before either and so you know I kept at it for
00:08:39.320 a while because I felt like I was sort of obligated to or cuz I said I would and then I just started getting less and
00:08:44.720 less out of it and then eventually just decided you know what I should probably just let someone do it who's got who
00:08:51.290 wants to do this right who's got the energy and the drive to specifically do this and
00:08:56.480 they're going to be way better at it than I am
00:09:04.480 so Sean we have heard a lot about Ruby for good and how awesome it is but it's
00:09:10.130 sold out for this year and so if people want to do reefer good they have to wait all the way til next year so give some
00:09:15.470 ideas for other things that people can get involved in so you can get involved
00:09:22.730 remotely like we have like it's helping nonprofits this is a pending that does float your boat hop on our stock channel
00:09:30.829 we have or go to our github pages look at all issues we tag them help on it and try to tag them as well like a newbie
00:09:36.800 good first commit and and jump in there because yeah like and all our
00:09:42.199 stakeholders we try and get them in there commenting as well so you'll you'll see Rachel from the diaper bank saying like hey could this possible and
00:09:48.889 and it's just really wonderful fulfilling to getting that destructive interaction I think I think caring was
00:09:58.070 an idea too I do um thank you're referring to I think you're referring to there is a
00:10:04.550 Python offshoot that would be for good happening in Portland in July I can't
00:10:10.970 remember the website things code for goods that I oh so that's that's happening soon I think it's what you're
00:10:16.160 talking about too much sure okay
00:10:24.050 so sometimes when you get started in something it's a little difficult to
00:10:29.089 figure out how much commitment is involved and how much time you might have to dedicate to it so say or do you
00:10:35.000 have any tips for sort of up front trying to figure out what level of
00:10:40.250 commitment is going to be required I think the so one thing that that I
00:10:46.430 found helpful in the number of the groups that I've worked with is that they have these things like you were saying it's like good first commit or
00:10:52.160 like easy thing to start with I find that really useful and what offense
00:10:57.740 Amina is not necessarily that like I want to do that thing but what it says to me is that they've thought about which pieces of work they could sort of
00:11:04.850 break off and give to someone who's new which i think is a process that a lot of groups a lot of
00:11:10.160 times don't really go through and I you know a trails bridge we've been we've
00:11:16.069 tried hard to have a revolving door meaning like if you're a student this
00:11:21.139 time we explicitly encourage them to come back the next time as a TA and as a TA you don't have to teach the class
00:11:26.179 you're just sitting in the class with the instructor and your role is just to provide another voice another
00:11:31.910 interpretation another way of thinking about the concept that they're trying to work on and we found that to be
00:11:37.549 incredibly valuable just because a lot of times the folks who come back the very next time as a TA are they're
00:11:44.389 they're closer in mindset to the people in the class than the instructor is and so they can often for you know a
00:11:49.850 perspective so that the teacher can't offer any more and so we try hard to
00:11:56.059 make that a fairly low commitment deal right you just show up for the day and you sit in the class and you sort of
00:12:01.279 comment on things and the teacher may ask you to give your perspective on things once in a while and so we try and
00:12:07.670 have this sort of ratcheting up level of commitment as you as you want to do it and I also think it's okay for you to
00:12:14.269 come and go in a project in volunteer work in general sometimes I have a bunch
00:12:19.730 of room forward in my life and sometimes I don't and so I go through cycles for
00:12:24.799 sure of like I'm really involved I'm on the board I'm going to every meeting and
00:12:29.809 then there'll be six months or a year where I'm just like FML ok y'all can handle this for a while right because
00:12:36.290 I've got a kid in middle school or something like that something will happen and I think that that yeah it's a
00:12:43.699 lot like an open source project a lot of these things and that we do need to be cognizant of people's waxing and waning
00:12:49.689 availability and energy and interest in helping and so I think that if you've
00:12:56.449 got a group that has sort of thought through that and a lot of the times these groups that are run like open
00:13:02.299 source projects because open source has already sort of gone through that thought process and a lot of times that
00:13:08.629 the that does actually exist and so for me it's the process of like sort of looking for these levels that they've
00:13:13.819 set up I think that's really good and like being honest with yourself with how
00:13:19.339 much time you actually have and I recently went through a situation with a group that I volunteer for and I'd
00:13:25.870 volunteered to help run a class and it kept getting delayed and then it was
00:13:30.910 running into other things I had volunteered for so at some point I had to say you know what I'm not going to be
00:13:36.490 available to do this but this time maybe I can do it next time or something like that so I think being honest with
00:13:42.160 yourself and then just just being really open with other organizers of the thing that you're doing is really helpful I
00:13:48.360 also had a like lean on your community like we have probably the best community
00:13:53.890 out of any like ehh talked about that like the Ruby community the rails community is just full of awesome people
00:13:59.920 and so like if it's a if it's an open source project like ask the person maintaining it like you know this is too
00:14:06.850 hard for me can I do this this is my skill level if you want to build something for someone you know go to a meet-up ask people like
00:14:13.570 hey I'm trying to figure out how to build this there's a lot of helpful people and everyone's going to help you also sometimes it's good to pick the
00:14:20.350 thing that's too hard and then find someone who will care with you and then you can learn then it's like a win-win situation cuz you're you're helping
00:14:27.430 someone you're learning you're growing and you're developing a mentor relationship so it'd be helpful all around I just wanted to add a thing
00:14:34.330 about on through Django Girls we really try to push not like shove but like
00:14:39.580 encourage people who just went through the tutorial that they should become piays like Sarah mentioned at the next
00:14:47.350 workshop and there's a lot of reluctance there but people who are very close to like the beginning of learning a program
00:14:52.990 are often the best resource because they know what it's like to be a beginner they might they're less inclined to be
00:14:58.060 like why don't you know this like don't you know Stack Overflow is so that's like our teaching especially is a really
00:15:04.570 great way for someone who's starting out in text to get involved the first time
00:15:11.500 that I did a realist rage workshop was the first time I'd ever really taught anybody programming and we went along
00:15:17.260 for about 20 minutes before one of the women women my class was like can I ask
00:15:22.870 a dumb question I was like sure and no question is done well watch like what's a variable and I was like well it's a
00:15:33.100 thing in your program with a name and that was
00:15:39.710 pretty much the quality of my explanation but fortunately there was another person in the room who had more
00:15:47.000 recently you know because at that point it had been 20 years since I had processed what a variable was and I just
00:15:53.450 couldn't really underneath everything and but the other person in the room who
00:15:59.150 was more recently become a programmer was able to just be like okay so imagine
00:16:04.970 you're in preschool and you've got a big wall of cubbies and one for each kid right and like what it is is you can put
00:16:12.110 different things in it and I was just like wow that's a great explanation actually that's really cool and it
00:16:17.210 resonated with the people there and so I learned a bunch about it about how to teach these things just based on
00:16:23.680 listening to other people explain it cool so our next question is for Tyrion
00:16:30.560 you can get us started how do you recognize when it's time to take a break and why why is that really important
00:16:39.530 I feel like this doesn't really apply to programming specifically but in your life when you're doing something that
00:16:44.930 makes you unhappy you should probably stop doing it and that sounds really obvious but like I feel like as
00:16:50.060 programmers and like people who want to help it's hard for us to take that step back and see like okay this is not good
00:16:55.250 for us but I think someone mentioned already that like you can you can take a
00:17:00.680 step back from open source and the community and it will it will continue to survive without you and you can always come back I also feel Specialist
00:17:11.600 programmers run a lot of pressure like there's always something new to learn new new jobs for framework do new new
00:17:19.010 language new everything and and you know you see those those charts of what it takes to be a full stack developer and
00:17:24.170 it's like all these interconnected things and it can get pretty overwhelming and with a lot of pressure
00:17:30.020 on ourselves to you know to feel like we have to know all these things but um I
00:17:36.700 don't I think it's good just to disconnect to read a book read a lot of books and yeah like Karen said
00:17:46.890 and I think that it's one of the things that's been interesting for me is is to
00:17:53.830 figure out that that there's a lot of different ways to help and that some of
00:18:01.060 them I'm better at than I am at others and the ones that give me an overtime
00:18:07.800 you know I think is especially because it's not you know that often times there
00:18:14.530 are issues with our job or on a project we don't like like things are making me grumpy like work that's sort of taking
00:18:20.740 energy out of my life and a lot of times the volunteer work I do is part of what puts that energy back it's part of what
00:18:26.950 gets me interested again just in tech in general and keeps me going when parts of
00:18:32.760 my life are draining energy which happens with any job right there will be
00:18:38.050 periods where that will happen and a one thing that took me a while to figure out
00:18:43.450 though is that like that drain can go the other way if I'm working on a volunteer project that is not giving me
00:18:49.240 energy there's always going to be periods where you're like okay so I'm just going to go through these eight billion issues and
00:18:55.180 like tag them all or whatever but I think that the you know overall it's it's it's good to sort of assess once in
00:19:01.960 a while like is this work that I'm doing still feeding into that energy cycle in
00:19:07.270 a positive way or does it feel like it's draining I wasn't reminded by what Sarah was
00:19:15.070 saying by DHH this morning talking about the juice arrow and how there's an element of juice arrow work and
00:19:21.100 everything that you do and I feel like that's often less so in community
00:19:26.440 involvement so you can go to work and work on your your juice robot and then volunteer and know that okay I'm helping
00:19:32.590 someone's life's become better and that's very useful so Shawn can you talk
00:19:42.220 about some of the benefits to the person themselves or to their career maybe so
00:19:50.110 I'm a big proponent of gather the benefits of getting involved and stuff like this and I think the most tangible
00:19:56.740 one is it's open source and you know whether whether we like it or not kind of github is our resume now and so people laughing
00:20:05.410 but it's true you know like you well like to an extent like you're going to
00:20:11.050 go you're going to apply for a job and like if you're just out of a boot camp or something you know this is this is
00:20:16.540 something tangible you can you can point to you that they can look at because it's really hard to get value from you
00:20:22.600 know doing the coding Fibonacci or something with someone and you know if you've actually built something that
00:20:28.780 they can look at so you can talk about you know like you're disagreeing with me
00:20:34.500 but like if there's real code you have out there in the world then people can that you can have in a conversation with
00:20:40.780 someone but I do you think that it is
00:20:52.480 really useful especially as you're starting out right to have some stuff up on github that it's not programming challenges or school you know boot camp
00:21:00.040 projects and things like that I do think though that we tend to over value code
00:21:05.920 contributions just in general in terms of when we talk about volunteer work we
00:21:11.410 talk about giving back when we talk about public personas I remember that the they we used to do a
00:21:19.960 thing called the Ruby heroes award and one thing they would do is they would put up everyone's github contribution
00:21:25.150 graphs of the people that won the award and typically it was all green meaning like they had contributed all the stuff
00:21:31.240 to all these projects and that's super cool and then and then then I won one and they put up my github contribution
00:21:38.350 graph and there was like one little green square on there for like the last year and you know we don't necessarily
00:21:44.530 have ways to measure sometimes the impact of the work that people do outside of contributing code and and I
00:21:52.540 know that github is thinking about this and I I don't know who knows you would know better than I do yeah why don't you
00:21:58.750 take over at this point this is like outside of the realm of get up at this point because everyone uses it but like
00:22:05.050 github does not want you to treat your contribution graph it's like a measure of your worth as a human being like it's
00:22:10.630 supposed to be like fun little game early oh look it's a line of green squares but it's like
00:22:15.640 gotten out of hand so Sarah you talked a
00:22:23.710 little bit about contributing to projects that are like draining you
00:22:29.350 instead of fulfilling you so what do you do when you get involved in a project and it's just not a good fit anymore I
00:22:36.480 mean I think that a lot of projects are used to the idea because we all are coming from this open source world we're
00:22:42.880 used to the idea of like contributors are going to come and go and the project itself needs to be resilient to that
00:22:48.120 movement just like our projects that work need to be resilient to turnover right in the
00:22:54.010 same way and and I think that you know
00:22:59.530 there there's there's certainly been occasions when people will just sort of drop out and just stop showing up in the slack channel and you know stop
00:23:06.790 returning emails and stuff and I generally tend to take that as a sign that they're just overwhelmed right so
00:23:13.030 they that I let it get to the point without checking in with them that they got overwhelmed so I don't tend to think
00:23:19.330 that they're like bad people or whatever but I tend to think that they're they just got overwhelmed and they couldn't
00:23:24.820 handle it anymore and they checked out and so I try to you know I try to check
00:23:30.880 in with people as a result of that and and you know be like hey so how does this feeling for you do you want you
00:23:36.550 know does what are you enjoying what you're doing you want to do something different I think that more and more
00:23:42.280 projects people that run these projects are are in that boat right so they're
00:23:47.800 going to be pretty sympathetic to being like hey I'm overwhelmed right now I can't really take this on I'm having
00:23:55.390 trouble keeping up with whatever it is I would love to just hand this off and do
00:24:02.380 a clean handoff and if you find someone you want me to sit with them for a couple hours and we can you know I could
00:24:07.390 show them what I do or whatever but i you know and i think that most project maintainers i feel like both in sort of
00:24:14.290 open source code related things but then also in teaching and other things are not necessarily expecting you're going
00:24:21.070 to stay forever but i think it's just you know like anything else it's a communicate cycle yeah and I think a lot of times
00:24:28.330 they'll be grateful to hear like okay you're overwhelmed you didn't just disappear on me and depend enough notice to try and find someone else so we
00:24:36.850 wanted to make sure we left enough time if you guys have questions so there are there any questions ask some more
00:24:43.270 questions if if you guys can out because anything you want okay so the question
00:24:48.670 was where do you start when it's not when you're in a community that's not obvious where to start
00:24:54.280 so I recently visited my college which is in the middle of Iowa and there's not
00:24:59.320 a whole lot of tech going on there so I told students there if they want to get more involved in programming stuff
00:25:04.600 that there's lots of things you can do remotely like because they're college students in Carroll at video games
00:25:10.870 what's the most part I've pointed in it like mobile game jams and things of that nature but there's also non videogame
00:25:16.510 things like that I also think you might be surprised if you like held a meet-up
00:25:22.840 in in the DC area we we scheduled the meetup for out in the Eastern Shore of
00:25:28.600 Maryland which was like 200 miles away just don't hold meet up with a friend of ours who lived out there and so like the
00:25:35.320 meetup was coming to him rather than him coming in the meetup but like the strangest thing happened because we held a meetup out there and it showed up on
00:25:41.140 meetup calm did all these local people just showed up too so you may be
00:25:46.180 surprised that there's a lot more people nearby than you suspect especially with so many people working
00:25:52.000 remotely these days I think that a lot of times there may not be an explicit community in a rural area but I'll bet
00:25:57.550 you there's probably at least a couple of folks hacking on code working from home and sometimes they are super
00:26:03.580 excited to like you know if I I have a friend that lived for a while in Eastern
00:26:09.730 Washington and she would go to meetups for basically any technology even when
00:26:15.520 she wasn't working with necessarily because he just wanted to like hang out with other tech people like bounce ideas off them in general and so it can be it
00:26:22.810 can be illuminating to to try and have a technique up and see what happens you may pull some people out of the woodwork
00:26:28.630 that you weren't expecting or you might find in your community that there are people who are interested in learning
00:26:34.120 Ruby on Rails so you might even if it was a small thing even if you like had a small workshop and then you
00:26:41.260 can introduce some people to this whole new like career and they might have some interests when I checked in here the
00:26:46.900 other day that last night at the hotel the gentleman behind the desk is like
00:26:52.960 I'm really interested in this coding thing and so he like really wanted some more information about that and I think you know that exists everywhere and so
00:26:59.920 that's an opportunity and then also just getting involved in volunteer work like
00:27:05.800 in whatever capacity so I volunteer at a food pantry in a soup kitchen and then
00:27:10.840 it's like crazy Excel spreadsheet database like keeping track of things they hand count things and so we're
00:27:17.350 doing a project this year at Ruby for good for the soup kitchen that I volunteer for but I'm sure if you got
00:27:22.810 involved in some sort of volunteering role you'll quickly find that they don't have money to like buy apps and things
00:27:29.560 to to make their process better and easier and faster for all the volunteers
00:27:35.710 they have so there would be a huge opportunity there and then maybe you could recruit some people in your community or even remote to do something
00:27:43.300 for something that's like local in your community okay so the question was how
00:27:48.940 do you recognize the people who are in your group how do you give back to them
00:27:54.340 and recognize them for contributing hugs
00:27:59.820 lots of hugs Oh swag sir yeah but everybody figured you'll see me
00:28:05.170 chasing people down to hide lonely that's a joke you know I think this is something that we have not has not done
00:28:12.940 a great job at with some of the organizations I've been a part of and I think because maybe we come from most of
00:28:21.010 us come from a programming background and not so many of us from kind of a nonprofit administration background where and where that kind of stuff is is
00:28:27.520 more universally understood that is necessary so but some of the things we've done is like we've printed special
00:28:33.160 t-shirts for people we've we made like little necklaces with the railsbridge
00:28:39.010 logo on it for our board members we gave people hoodies if they were if I thought
00:28:45.690 you know I forget what it was was like teach five workshops and we'll send you a hoodie kind of deal
00:28:51.850 and but I think that like that is definitely an area in which most of us
00:28:57.970 could use help because I think that you know that cycle of like we appreciate you we know you're doing this and you
00:29:04.420 don't have to I think it's important and it's a loop that we should learn to close better I had a similar sort of
00:29:12.880 experience in Django Girls where we've had almost five workshops and I wanted
00:29:18.070 to recognize people who've coached it one two three four workshops and so we had the budget for hoodies or anything
00:29:24.370 cool like that so we bought floppy discs and painted them like gold silver bronze to the different like number of times
00:29:30.970 people volunteered and like put rhinestones on that's our thing rhinestones yeah I was that I would actually like that better than a hoodie
00:29:37.030 you can't wear it but people can really love them and then also like was less of
00:29:44.530 a physical manifestation of your appreciation just like reaching out to people like hey I really really appreciated you helping us so many times
00:29:50.680 or often like I noticed you didn't apply to be a coach this time is it you have something going on in your life you're
00:29:56.470 like worried you didn't do great because you did great there's like little things like that are really great so Chris is
00:30:04.900 giving a talk on organizing he's going to do a panel talk on organizing and so I would highly recommend going to that
00:30:11.560 doesn't mean you guys can't answer the question but they'll be they're going to go away more into depth on sponsors and
00:30:19.510 organizing and all that sort of stuff so I think that would be a great resource for you do ego sorry the question the
00:30:26.740 question was how do you manage if you do get people to come to a meet-up how do you manage the meetup and I think the
00:30:33.220 interesting part of that question for me is is what's the difference between managing folks on a team for work for pay and the difference between managing
00:30:39.790 it between that and managing a team of volunteers and I have found that there is a significant amount of overlap the
00:30:47.890 main difference that I see is that volunteer work tends to be much less real time in terms of the interactions
00:30:54.490 and the reaction to it whereas you can have a meeting one day and things shift the following day at
00:31:01.360 work a lot of times it's much of much longer feedback loop you're like oh we'll have this email and then we'll figure something out and
00:31:07.210 then a week later we'll do it and for me that that sometimes makes it hard for me to pick up and remember kind of where
00:31:14.019 where we were on this journey of trying to make this thing happen and the other
00:31:20.950 thing is that people do kind of piece in and out more than they would do at work
00:31:27.159 and maybe this is the advantage of living in the San Fransisco bubble but that happens on my team in San Francisco too and I just expect it right like
00:31:33.879 people are going to you know they're going to work the average tenure of someone at a tech job in San Francisco
00:31:39.639 right now is under 18 months and so people are just like oh my buddy he's doing startup I'm just going to go work
00:31:45.249 on that for a couple months and they know that they can just get another job or they can come back and work with me again they want to after their startup
00:31:52.330 you know crashes and burns and or is sold to Twitter it's always the hope
00:31:57.519 right and so I think that yeah there's I
00:32:02.590 feel like they're almost converging right there's sort of this we've we've been working in the tech
00:32:07.629 community on building teams that are resilient to turnover which has a lot in common with building a team and sort of
00:32:14.320 hurting the volunteers along I have
00:32:21.129 never been a real software manager but something that seems to be important to those folks that I think is important in
00:32:27.369 volunteering is like the bus sector if you're familiar with that where you know
00:32:33.580 if someone gets burnt out or decides not to do this anymore what's going to happen and I think in both those situations just documenting religiously
00:32:40.269 is very very important I was very fortunate that the former organized organizer bingo girls Portland left so
00:32:48.220 many emails I can copy and paste and just documentation on the way that she led the organization so it's not
00:32:53.850 confusing or mysterious ever yeah so the
00:32:59.830 question is are there examples of companies who have been who've done a good job of integrating some of this
00:33:07.809 volunteer work into the company is that right yeah yeah into the product okay so
00:33:14.499 I can kind of speak to that a little bit like I know github actually every is a February their volunteer month which they get 20%
00:33:21.579 of their time to just work on open source projects and you know Ruby for goods benefited from that because we
00:33:27.789 always point them at route for good projects needing help and in February we see a lot of contributions from getup
00:33:33.609 people which is awesome I know customink does skills based volunteering which is really cool and another awesome company
00:33:42.009 that's doing it I want to give a shout out to but I can't remember my company gave us like one one day a month which
00:33:47.709 isn't a whole lot but at least it helps us get more people like in the company
00:33:52.809 involved and stuff like that as well yeah I know Salesforce and I'm not sure if this carries over to all like Heroku
00:33:59.649 and all that stuff so I have a couple friends that work in Salesforce proper and Salesforce actually gives them a certain number of days per year sort of
00:34:05.529 like vacation time but like it's non-profit work time and so they can use that to volunteer at their kids school or they can use it to work on a project
00:34:12.609 and so what often happens there is that people will schedule to use that time at the same time so they can work in a
00:34:18.700 group on a project that they're interested in and so sometimes even just providing that time and then just kind
00:34:24.970 of seeing what people do with it can can be interesting so I think that's all the time we have but thank you so much for
00:34:31.240 coming and hopefully you've had some ideas spark and you can go out and make
00:34:36.279 the world a better place thank you thank you and a round of applause please for
00:34:43.599 Polly for putting all this together this is kind of work