00:00:00.160
uh slot of the day which is a
00:00:03.200
panel and the title is how to get a job
00:00:07.080
as a ruby developer and with me here are
00:00:11.960
yache who um suggested this panel umacha
00:00:18.240
is a teacher at Leong then we have tobas
00:00:21.800
with us Tobias is a CEO of a small
00:00:24.680
consultancy called
00:00:26.880
Wulan then next to me is Eileen that
00:00:29.519
you've already seen and probably know
00:00:33.840
and then we have with us Kaa who is a
00:00:38.399
senior Ruby developer looking for a job
00:00:42.879
and to so I asked kind of how she wants
00:00:47.480
to be introduced so that is
00:00:50.640
um um was okay so um what was your like
00:00:56.239
reason to propose this session um is
00:00:59.640
this working oh yeah now it's working uh
00:01:01.879
so my reason was that uh yeah I've been
00:01:05.239
in the in cyber security for seven years
00:01:07.439
so I got to the senior position uh and
00:01:10.439
now I got a bit sick of breaking apps I
00:01:12.680
want to build them so I went into Ruby
00:01:16.600
because I did my bachelor thesis many
00:01:19.200
many years ago in Ruby and rails and I
00:01:21.280
was like okay let's give this a chance
00:01:23.280
again and I really like the language way
00:01:26.159
more than other programming languages
00:01:27.920
I've used but I've started applying
00:01:29.920
applying for jobs and I got so many NOS
00:01:33.439
that I got very discouraged and then I
00:01:35.079
was okay so where do I fit uh because I
00:01:37.920
don't feel like I'm a junior anymore
00:01:39.960
like I have some coding experience uh
00:01:42.119
but just not super like a lot of
00:01:45.320
experience specifically in Ruby and I
00:01:48.119
want to know how to first get better
00:01:50.079
like what like detail tips that people
00:01:53.000
can give me like okay get better at
00:01:55.240
testing or get better at this and also
00:01:57.240
how to crack the interviews the
00:01:59.360
technical part of the interviews because
00:02:01.200
the rest I'm okay like but in the
00:02:04.640
technical I'm like not that good so yeah
00:02:08.879
okay yeah so maybe that's a question for
00:02:11.280
eileene how to get better at Ruby so
00:02:14.319
what would you recommend what what area
00:02:17.640
should you actually look into so I mean
00:02:21.519
I'm also bad at technical interviews
00:02:24.480
like I hate them perfect there's nothing
00:02:27.040
that makes me sweat more than some dude
00:02:29.360
watching me code when I like already
00:02:32.000
know how to do it and also cuz they
00:02:33.599
always like it's a pairing interview and
00:02:35.040
you're like this isn't pairing because
00:02:36.239
you already know the answer yeah
00:02:38.959
sorry can you tell I don't like them uh
00:02:41.159
like the interviews but uh well I guess
00:02:45.959
were they are they pairing interviews or
00:02:47.400
are they like someone watching you code
00:02:49.360
or are they like apps that you were
00:02:51.680
supposed to like build a feature into
00:02:53.640
both yeah which one do you feel like oh
00:02:56.480
the worst one is when they're like oh
00:02:58.159
code and then there's three people
00:02:59.360
looking at me and I'm like yeah I don't
00:03:03.000
yeah I don't know how to get better at
00:03:04.120
those other than like maybe ask people
00:03:06.000
to watch you code and like
00:03:08.319
practice that
00:03:11.000
uh
00:03:12.920
but yeah I so what I would do is I would
00:03:15.920
build uh an app on the side uhhuh and
00:03:20.280
deploy it and like add features to it
00:03:22.319
and ask sometimes if you can trade that
00:03:24.920
as your technical interview ah okay and
00:03:27.680
make sure that you do really good get
00:03:30.040
commit history and uh it's really clean
00:03:34.319
code that's well documented so and do it
00:03:36.920
in public like on GitHub as like open
00:03:39.760
source so that everyone can see uh and
00:03:42.760
that's how I've done some technical
00:03:44.360
interviews where I've swapped that out
00:03:46.239
um you'd think after working on Rails
00:03:48.480
for 10 years in public that I wouldn't
00:03:51.640
have to uh jump through the pairing
00:03:53.959
interview Hoops but I did at Shopify and
00:03:56.079
it sucked um but I I did it
00:04:00.519
um and a lot of times in those pairing
00:04:02.959
interviews they'll let you use
00:04:04.239
documentation but they might not say it
00:04:06.000
so ask if you can can I use
00:04:08.040
documentation because nobody codes
00:04:09.760
without documentation in Google yeah I
00:04:11.480
know that's why I find this interview so
00:04:13.159
like stressing because that's not how I
00:04:15.120
code like I no so I would I would admit
00:04:19.680
I would ask for changing things about
00:04:22.560
the interview and see if that helps and
00:04:24.919
then yeah I don't know practice coding
00:04:27.199
in front of people but getting your own
00:04:28.840
like getting your own app uh up and
00:04:31.800
running that you can use as an example I
00:04:34.000
think is probably the best way because
00:04:35.840
then you're also pra you like have
00:04:37.479
practical coding experience um and
00:04:41.479
whatnot you can show your other skills
00:04:44.080
at the same time good thanks
00:04:47.000
yeah Ka what what are your
00:04:49.600
recommendations and maybe also focus on
00:04:52.000
like how how to get better at Ruby I
00:04:54.759
thought that understood that was also
00:04:56.639
one of the questions like in general not
00:04:58.759
only
00:05:00.199
um and with regards to the
00:05:02.520
interviews yeah I mean for me this
00:05:05.440
technical interviews are also very
00:05:07.280
nerve-wrecking
00:05:08.360
um I think what helped me was like
00:05:11.520
pairing a lot um and having someone
00:05:14.360
actually watch me code um and uh I think
00:05:19.280
one good initiative that I would
00:05:21.000
recommend especially to people who feel
00:05:23.360
like they're more Junior and Ruby um uh
00:05:27.400
would be the um my my I think it's
00:05:30.560
called my first Ruby friend or my Ruby
00:05:33.000
friend from Andy croll it's like a
00:05:35.319
mentoring program um I used to Mentor
00:05:39.360
there and with my Mente it was like just
00:05:43.960
pairing sessions on Ruby problems and I
00:05:47.680
think it's a really good start to you
00:05:50.000
know because it's like a low barrier
00:05:52.840
entry to kind of having someone watch
00:05:56.280
you code who's well-meaning and
00:05:59.800
um yeah and not expecting like high
00:06:02.280
performance or anything plus you can
00:06:04.639
pick uh fun uh challenges like from the
00:06:08.199
Advent of code or something like that um
00:06:11.199
so you can actually enjoy
00:06:13.120
it um yeah and I I also think um in
00:06:17.199
general it's good to um have like a lot
00:06:22.080
of community events I don't know for
00:06:24.080
example in Berlin we have these um so I
00:06:27.599
I would also recommend to go to the user
00:06:30.440
groups and just meet with people and
00:06:32.560
talk to them about these things um and
00:06:35.880
put yourself out there maybe also
00:06:37.560
through contexts you can get a job yeah
00:06:40.680
and yeah I think it's just that I
00:06:45.319
sometimes struggle giving out uh nice
00:06:49.960
advice because I feel like back in uh
00:06:53.639
2016 17 when I was a junior and Ruby um
00:06:58.840
uh the word looked a bit different and
00:07:01.639
um it I was kind of privileged in a way
00:07:04.240
that there was a lot of help from the
00:07:06.440
community back then so we had the rails
00:07:09.280
girls Berlin being very active um and we
00:07:12.840
had uh the rails girls summer of code
00:07:15.599
which I participated in and that was
00:07:18.440
like a really good trajectory into the
00:07:20.280
career back then because before that I
00:07:22.720
had done a boot camp I had my portfolio
00:07:25.599
and everything and I applied for junior
00:07:27.759
jobs and people were saying yeah but you
00:07:29.240
don't have work experience so um we
00:07:32.560
don't want to employ you and I was like
00:07:34.280
yeah but you want to pay me a junior
00:07:36.199
salary and you you require work
00:07:38.639
experience you know what is this uh so
00:07:42.000
when I then participated in the um rails
00:07:46.360
girls summer of code it was like a
00:07:50.039
three-month um scholarship program where
00:07:53.560
me and another team member were um
00:07:56.080
coding on uh a feature for disc course
00:08:00.720
with um mentors and a whole like
00:08:03.639
coaching company um supporting us and we
00:08:07.080
got paid to do that oh nice so we would
00:08:10.039
um output open source code that was
00:08:12.319
public and visible like elen said this
00:08:14.599
is like really important that you
00:08:16.400
produce code that people can actually
00:08:18.319
see and where they can see like the git
00:08:20.240
history and see that your git commit
00:08:23.120
messages actually makes sense and you're
00:08:24.720
not just like oh another Buck fix you
00:08:27.479
know but then yeah exactly um yeah so in
00:08:32.519
in in my case I felt like oh cool I'm
00:08:35.440
doing like the what I called the like
00:08:38.519
classic rails girls career start right
00:08:41.760
so I did the rails girls beginners
00:08:43.600
Workshop uh the Cod and cakes which are
00:08:46.000
like hackathons but with cake um the the
00:08:50.680
summer of the Red Gold summer of code um
00:08:53.480
and then the coaching company where
00:08:55.680
where I did the summer of code I was um
00:08:58.959
really pushing them every day like
00:09:01.640
saying like hey wouldn't it be cool if I
00:09:03.480
work here afterwards you know don't you
00:09:05.480
want to employ me look how cool I am and
00:09:08.200
and at at the end they gave in and they
00:09:10.360
were like okay so that's how I got my
00:09:12.959
first job and then now when Juniors
00:09:15.160
approach me and ask me like how do I get
00:09:17.040
my first job I'm I have to tell them
00:09:19.000
look I was super privileged back then uh
00:09:21.920
there was the Travis Foundation actually
00:09:24.160
paying for the scholarship Pro program
00:09:27.200
but it was shut down so since it was
00:09:29.440
shut down there's this not this program
00:09:31.920
anymore and so now you have to look for
00:09:34.920
for things like this um Ruby friend
00:09:38.760
program um and yeah and this actually
00:09:41.880
also a shout out to to people here like
00:09:44.560
if you have any idea how we can set this
00:09:46.880
up again something like the summer of
00:09:49.040
code um please let me know because I
00:09:52.200
think this is what we need
00:10:01.160
so maybe we can ask tobas who's also um
00:10:04.720
in the position to hire um uh junior or
00:10:08.880
or Juniors but also uh developers um in
00:10:13.240
general what are you looking for when
00:10:15.600
you hire a person can you give any tips
00:10:19.440
for the recruiting yeah I'll try to so
00:10:21.760
basically I'm not an HR Manager so I'm
00:10:23.959
not hiring is not my uh my my full role
00:10:27.760
um but yes I do run technical interviews
00:10:30.160
and first of all um yeah I'm not super
00:10:33.160
experienced in that so you have to
00:10:34.839
understand that I am nervous running a
00:10:36.600
technical interview as well that's very
00:10:38.720
important yeah so we're all PE people
00:10:41.200
we're all humans and we're in this
00:10:43.920
together uh yeah honestly and um well I
00:10:48.120
don't know about um of course I have
00:10:50.240
different expectations hiring a junior
00:10:52.680
and hiring a senior developer uh I would
00:10:55.920
uh I would always run over pre-existing
00:10:58.880
code with a with a junior developer I I
00:11:01.399
personally would not expect someone to
00:11:03.160
sit with me and do anything live in that
00:11:05.639
interview so I would ask if can you
00:11:08.200
bring some code that you have written
00:11:09.839
before it doesn't need to be Ruby it can
00:11:12.160
be anything and then I would like to
00:11:14.839
have a discussion discussion on that
00:11:16.639
code how how did he came what is this
00:11:19.079
what is the problem that solved it and
00:11:21.160
yeah I do expect uh some kind of um some
00:11:25.560
kind of understanding of the things you
00:11:27.120
have done yourself uh and uh some kind
00:11:30.440
of uh knowledge of your own yeah what is
00:11:34.480
what is my role in this why did I do
00:11:36.079
this uh like this what is the the
00:11:38.880
boundaries of my knowledge there yeah so
00:11:42.639
that would be how I approach that
00:11:44.800
usually so if I have a senior there uh
00:11:47.279
then we can we can go deeper and I I
00:11:49.320
would really love to have a discussion
00:11:52.720
that is uh fruitful for both sides with
00:11:55.079
a senior developer so if I start and dig
00:11:57.760
in why did you use that pattern and so
00:11:59.839
and and I cannot see that someone has
00:12:03.800
been practicing uh software design
00:12:06.399
patterns before that would be a problem
00:12:08.120
for me for for a senior
00:12:11.000
old and what uh would what what stands
00:12:16.079
out in application so when do you say an
00:12:17.880
application is really good I would
00:12:20.320
invite that um person when you look for
00:12:22.880
Ruby
00:12:24.639
developers I cannot say I'm I'm not I'm
00:12:27.000
not hiring the code that was written um
00:12:29.279
I have not been part in that process I
00:12:30.959
always hire people so uh of course we
00:12:33.440
need a personal connection which is not
00:12:35.480
really part of the technical interview
00:12:37.199
but in the technical viw I'm I'm looking
00:12:39.000
for
00:12:40.639
um how do you approach problems uh how
00:12:45.240
do you respond to questions something
00:12:47.839
like that so I'm not I'm not searching
00:12:50.120
for for for knowledge or or anything but
00:12:53.160
I I uh expect someone to be able to
00:12:56.760
reflect on their own work yeah so that
00:12:59.000
is is important for me and besides that
00:13:01.600
uh the dedication to the language is for
00:13:03.600
me uh the most important thing so if I
00:13:07.639
if I see that someone wants to do that
00:13:10.079
and someone wants to learn that is the
00:13:12.440
most important thing at all
00:13:15.240
yeah yeah I also want to give like some
00:13:19.120
um actually nicer examples of technical
00:13:22.160
interviews where I as a um
00:13:26.160
interviewer as a uh applicant was
00:13:29.880
feeling actually enjoying them um uh one
00:13:33.920
example was I think it was
00:13:36.480
um uh for a comp uh it was for we
00:13:39.720
transfer um they they had this technical
00:13:43.040
interview where they would give me like
00:13:44.839
a little homework that was fun because
00:13:47.560
it was actually just um a bunch of tests
00:13:50.199
and I had to make them pass and uh and
00:13:53.440
then I would come into a session um with
00:13:56.959
one of their Engineers with my solution
00:13:59.079
tion and um he was just asking me
00:14:03.440
questions like so if I would want to
00:14:06.240
expand this to do this and that as well
00:14:08.759
how would you refactor the code so it
00:14:11.279
actually fits my require my new
00:14:13.560
requirements and I was um pairing with
00:14:17.199
him on the problem or or giving my
00:14:19.160
thoughts to that and that was actually
00:14:21.600
fun and enjoyable because it was it was
00:14:24.399
like a more like real life situation but
00:14:27.040
um boiled down to a very small
00:14:30.000
specific problem like the code doesn't
00:14:32.759
had was just one Ruby class with maybe
00:14:36.000
five methods or something or less I
00:14:38.800
don't know uh pretty straightforward and
00:14:42.199
uh it was super fun and it was also like
00:14:44.440
uh more like a real life situation where
00:14:47.880
I felt like yeah this is the thing right
00:14:49.800
you want um some uh you want to work on
00:14:53.639
something that you actually want to make
00:14:55.399
work but then also someone else is
00:14:57.519
coming with new requirements and and
00:14:59.199
then how would you you know uh actually
00:15:02.000
respond to the problem and I really
00:15:03.600
enjoyed enjoyed that uh technical
00:15:05.880
interview it was I was actually
00:15:07.560
forgetting that it's an interview I was
00:15:09.320
just like uh so like into the thing um
00:15:12.800
at the moment that I was like sad when
00:15:15.160
it was over I was no can we just keep on
00:15:17.519
working on this um and the other one was
00:15:21.639
uh at a uh smaller startup called leafy
00:15:25.360
that is not existing anymore um and I
00:15:29.319
don't know if you heara buta was was
00:15:31.839
there interviewing
00:15:34.279
me as um as a tech lead and she um and
00:15:39.600
uh the other interviews made like a
00:15:43.000
super like micro problem I think it was
00:15:46.399
just like a string manipulation problem
00:15:49.639
and they were like um making sure to
00:15:53.040
create a very safe environment which was
00:15:55.319
really nice by like saying we understand
00:15:58.079
that you're nervous
00:15:59.560
if you are feeling too nervous you can
00:16:01.720
stop at any time and take a break um we
00:16:05.199
are nervous too you're not alone in this
00:16:08.040
you can look up everything online you
00:16:09.880
can use your computer um you can ask any
00:16:13.440
question you can say oh I'm blanking
00:16:15.519
right now cuz I'm too nervous it's all
00:16:17.560
fine like so this was the first step
00:16:19.680
that I really liked where I felt like
00:16:21.880
okay they understand the severity of the
00:16:24.600
situation for me right um so the the
00:16:28.360
safe Environ helped to to get my nerves
00:16:31.600
back and then also it was nice like this
00:16:34.639
this super micro problem problem but you
00:16:38.120
could actually already show right
00:16:39.639
because I was like yeah I'm going to
00:16:41.399
impress them by by writing a test first
00:16:43.759
you know so so you can actually already
00:16:45.959
show like some of your approaches that
00:16:48.560
that you have um uh with the with the
00:16:52.079
smallest problem and it doesn't need to
00:16:53.639
be a big thing no it doesn't need to be
00:16:55.680
oh you need to write a whole app that
00:16:57.399
does this and you know it's just like
00:16:59.720
one string manipulation thingy that's it
00:17:03.519
and I think these were like two very
00:17:05.039
good examples for like if you are
00:17:07.439
looking for good
00:17:10.000
examples which I really enjoy so a lot
00:17:12.880
of inspiration and tips for um improving
00:17:15.439
uh the hiring process and um improving
00:17:18.559
like the interview
00:17:20.280
situations um so it's less of a struggle
00:17:23.160
in the interview situation yeah um but I
00:17:26.559
also wanted to know like r now I feel
00:17:29.520
confident like okay I create an app and
00:17:31.400
like I know how to do a lot of things
00:17:32.880
but I what's what's the next step like
00:17:34.919
what I because I Google and I'm like
00:17:36.720
okay how to get better in Ruby and
00:17:38.120
there's like millions of results so I
00:17:39.679
want to know okay I want I I have
00:17:42.120
limited time so what should I focus my
00:17:44.440
energy on what should I learn next
00:17:46.919
because I know tests is already like top
00:17:49.120
one on my list uh but after that like
00:17:51.640
what what is a skill in Ruby that or
00:17:53.840
rails that I would need to like yeah
00:17:56.720
impress the interviewer you know
00:18:01.320
yeah from my perspective it's um
00:18:04.240
refactoring um uh learn start to learn
00:18:06.960
refactoring and I think that's not the
00:18:08.840
next step that's also the last step
00:18:11.520
because you can always improve on a
00:18:15.400
refactoring objectoriented design and
00:18:18.000
then you can yeah of course you can move
00:18:20.080
on and on and on to systems design and
00:18:21.960
Architectural design later on later on
00:18:24.159
but yeah like um um after you are
00:18:28.799
confident with Ruby you start improving
00:18:31.200
the design of the code you have written
00:18:34.120
yeah yeah I think sorry I I thought
00:18:37.280
maybe we hear Eileen as the the rails
00:18:39.799
expert in this round what would you
00:18:41.600
recommend I I think refactoring is good
00:18:43.480
but also getting some expertise in a
00:18:45.600
specific area like performance or
00:18:47.240
something but like you already have the
00:18:48.480
security background so highlight that in
00:18:50.280
your yeah uh
00:18:53.919
interviewing it's a lot of people don't
00:18:56.480
know how to do security right so like
00:18:59.039
it's really easy to mess it up and like
00:19:00.360
RS doeses a lot to help you but like
00:19:02.720
there's not a lot of people on your
00:19:04.159
teams that are going to know how accs
00:19:06.919
works
00:19:08.440
or csrf what I don't know just all the
00:19:12.200
the security stuff um I I actually I
00:19:15.280
don't know that I would focus on testing
00:19:16.880
because test should be your least
00:19:18.360
complex code in your code base okay your
00:19:21.000
test should be simple like if your code
00:19:23.840
is clean your tests are clean but if
00:19:25.799
your code is your tests are
00:19:27.960
usually
00:19:29.440
woo but you assume that testing is like
00:19:34.640
you do it like the do it yeah it's part
00:19:37.960
of the basics but like if someone was
00:19:40.159
like I'm really good at testing I'd be
00:19:41.559
like okay that's fine but like can you
00:19:43.960
write can you make this code better
00:19:46.440
rather than can you write good tests
00:19:47.880
because
00:19:49.120
like if you're refactoring like you
00:19:51.360
should just rely on the tests that
00:19:52.480
already exists you shouldn't have to
00:19:53.880
write new tests because they should all
00:19:55.280
just still pass um and
00:20:00.280
I don't know this is an unpopular
00:20:01.720
opinion but I don't believe in
00:20:06.159
tdd
00:20:09.960
okay like I think you should write tests
00:20:12.799
but I think sometimes people get so
00:20:14.280
obsessed with test like fail code pass
00:20:18.320
fail that they don't write good code so
00:20:20.480
like it's your code needs to be readable
00:20:23.320
well refactored uh not too complex and
00:20:26.280
fast like before you're you're like like
00:20:29.159
then like you can write test at the same
00:20:30.480
time but it's the obsession with the
00:20:32.480
test that ends up with people being like
00:20:34.640
well I don't like the test passed so
00:20:36.320
like my Ruby code is fine you're like I
00:20:39.400
can't read that I don't care if a test
00:20:41.880
pass I can't read it so I think that
00:20:43.880
like being able to write really clean
00:20:45.600
Ruby and actually knowing how the
00:20:47.400
language wants Ruby to be written is
00:20:50.840
more important than being a testing
00:20:52.960
expert because I mean what's the first
00:20:55.320
thing that AI is going to take from us
00:20:56.600
it's tests so
00:20:58.840
yeah hopefully I would like to
00:21:03.679
say I would like to add to that um that
00:21:07.120
uh since we've heard like clean code and
00:21:09.840
design good design uh I think there can
00:21:12.960
be a lot of opinions out there what that
00:21:15.159
actually means um but I recommend uh
00:21:18.880
doing the 99 bottles of object oriented
00:21:22.679
reading that yeah that's like a good
00:21:25.200
start where you can actually get an
00:21:27.279
example of what that actually means the
00:21:30.320
design or clean code or something um is
00:21:33.279
always a good way to start but then also
00:21:35.720
of course um you know there are flavors
00:21:38.200
in Ruby as well and you will always find
00:21:40.600
like very opinionated um guys that
00:21:45.039
refactoring yeah so um beware that you
00:21:48.200
don't dissolve into like
00:21:52.320
the you know because I think sometimes
00:21:54.880
it's really um difficult to especially
00:21:58.880
when you have someone very dominant and
00:22:00.960
opinionated in the team uh and oh I've
00:22:04.159
worked with plenty of developers like
00:22:06.080
yeah yeah so you know what I mean right
00:22:07.919
I'm the security person that comes and
00:22:09.360
tells them yeah it work it works but
00:22:10.960
it's not secure so please change it and
00:22:13.039
they're like no but it works and I'm
00:22:14.520
like yeah but yeah and it's the same
00:22:17.200
with refactoring so I think that like
00:22:19.640
sometimes you need to always um also set
00:22:22.559
boundaries there and say like look uh I
00:22:25.240
know that you have a flavor and a style
00:22:27.679
but like I don't agree and I think I'm
00:22:30.080
going to write it this way because this
00:22:32.360
is a good design in my opinion and like
00:22:35.679
learn also to to build a confidence
00:22:38.159
there and I think then you're
00:22:43.279
good yeah good tips good
00:22:46.159
tips I don't know how is there going to
00:22:48.200
be to implement but
00:22:51.400
yeah yeah any are there any questions
00:22:54.600
left or something that you'd like to ask
00:22:57.640
no in the
00:23:00.320
I think I have enough to to do for the
00:23:02.799
first
00:23:04.240
next months or weeks yeah maybe also
00:23:07.720
don't only apply for uh explicitly
00:23:12.240
Junior title jobs but just any kind of
00:23:16.720
do that already yeah yeah and maybe I
00:23:19.279
wonder like what companies are hiring
00:23:22.480
Juniors or where is it is it are there
00:23:24.799
companies that where it's more likely to
00:23:27.440
get hired does does it depend on the
00:23:29.400
size or what's your experience with
00:23:32.880
that uh I don't I don't know about that
00:23:35.760
part but I have a suggestion if you have
00:23:38.080
Junior developer written anywhere like
00:23:40.520
on your Twitter bio delete it I don't
00:23:44.279
have all of you delete it they're like
00:23:46.880
you don't need to cut yourself down in
00:23:49.039
the interview process like they can
00:23:50.600
figure out what your skill level is you
00:23:51.880
don't need to tell them ahead of time um
00:23:53.840
it's not tricking people like if you
00:23:56.159
tell someone I'm Junior they're going to
00:23:57.720
treat you like you are even if you're
00:24:00.200
not so I don't no if you're not doing
00:24:03.200
that that's good for everyone else in
00:24:04.760
the room
00:24:05.799
who's you know go in with
00:24:09.279
confidence uh there's no reason to like
00:24:12.400
tell them that you're a lower level than
00:24:14.559
you
00:24:15.440
are um what was the original question
00:24:18.799
before I I was wondering if it's more if
00:24:21.840
it's for some companies it's more likely
00:24:23.600
that they hire Juniors
00:24:25.679
because yeah I don't know I think like
00:24:29.880
larger companies are more likely to the
00:24:33.360
thing is you can also use that security
00:24:35.039
angle to get in on like get to the
00:24:38.840
security
00:24:40.039
team of a company that uses Ruby and
00:24:43.760
then transfer I almost got a job at
00:24:45.799
gitlab doing that yeah yeah but the
00:24:48.279
technical interview
00:24:51.799
no
00:24:53.679
l
00:24:55.720
okay yeah maybe we can you can I use
00:24:59.120
what your microphone sorry I just had a
00:25:01.919
question for aracha so what kind of
00:25:04.840
open- source stuff would you want to
00:25:06.640
contribute to like what's your dream I
00:25:08.399
want to I want to be able to do this
00:25:09.840
somewhere so why don't I start with open
00:25:11.919
source so an open source project that
00:25:13.520
would be cool is I don't know yeah I
00:25:17.679
would I would recommend one find it I
00:25:19.840
recommend yeah okay open source is
00:25:21.919
awesome yeah yeah yeah I know I know
00:25:24.039
yeah yeah okay but i' I've I've never
00:25:28.320
contributed to open source but I've been
00:25:29.960
in communities forums and stuff like
00:25:32.000
that but I've never actually pushed code
00:25:34.159
so yeah maybe that's a good idea yeah so
00:25:36.640
struggling back to the the beginning to
00:25:38.799
Eileen's um suggestion to really like
00:25:41.559
create code publicly detail commits that
00:25:45.000
makes sense yeah like a good G commit
00:25:48.039
history commit history is way underrated
00:25:51.320
you should see the way people write
00:25:52.440
commit messages at big companies it's
00:25:55.080
insane like that commit should not be
00:25:57.720
fixing like what does that mean doesn't
00:25:59.600
mean anything to me makes me crazy yeah
00:26:03.360
and it was the worst at GitHub too
00:26:05.559
terrible commit messages
00:26:08.360
wow okay so now we're roasting the
00:26:12.000
companies
00:26:13.480
yeah
00:26:16.240
yeah okay like code publicly good commit
00:26:20.679
good commit testing is mandatory not
00:26:23.480
necessarily tdd but like there should be
00:26:26.159
tests don't be like the thing is people
00:26:27.720
are too prescri RVE right they're like
00:26:29.080
they told me to do tdd so I'm going to
00:26:30.760
do it and then like you can't be
00:26:32.080
creative or you like feel like you're
00:26:33.960
locked into that or like I don't know
00:26:35.919
other design patterns where people get
00:26:37.320
like really really obsessed with it even
00:26:39.200
like
00:26:41.520
uh even Sandy Mets stuff sometimes
00:26:43.799
people read the book and then they're
00:26:44.919
like I have to code this way and it's
00:26:46.559
like that's not the intention it's not
00:26:49.320
like do it this way always or you're bad
00:26:52.080
it's like here's an idea think about
00:26:53.919
this when you're doing stuff but like
00:26:55.200
when you get too prescriptive like your
00:26:56.799
code become like code stops being
00:26:58.760
fun don't get too
00:27:02.960
dogmatic advice I would second that but
00:27:05.760
the thing is um yeah you need I think
00:27:08.880
it's important to to to kind of learn
00:27:11.559
these uh these patterns and to to
00:27:13.919
familiarize yourself with it and then
00:27:16.799
after you have understood why they exist
00:27:19.039
and the reasons they are for that then
00:27:21.159
you can forget about that again yeah
00:27:23.399
because then it's automatic uh you will
00:27:25.240
you will automatically apply the right
00:27:26.840
pattern but this this is the senior
00:27:29.399
level in my opinion okay good to
00:27:33.200
know yeah I think I'm all set yeah
00:27:35.799
you're all said okay so people hire hire
00:27:40.399
Juniors and hire them in pairs as Andy
00:27:43.320
crw suggests that you have two juniors
00:27:45.720
in a team they can help each other out
00:27:48.480
and suffer together okay thank you
