Talks
Firing People
Summarized using AI
Firing People
by Zach HolmanIn his talk titled "Firing People" at BathRuby 2016, Zach Holman addresses the often-ignored topic of termination in the workplace. Holman notes the euphemistic language surrounding firing—phrases like "funemployed"—and points out the emotional and practical implications of being dismissed from a job. He reflects on his own experiences with firing, stressing the importance of discussing this difficult subject openly.
Key Points Discussed:
- Importance of Discussing Termination: Holman emphasizes that firing is a normal event that is seldom talked about, which hinders improvement of the process.
- Employee Offboarding: He connects the manner in which companies offboard employees to their overall culture and values.
- Personal Experiences: Sharing his own story of being fired from GitHub, Holman illustrates how even those who seem secure in their jobs can be unexpectedly let go. His experience involved miscommunication and a lack of transparency in the termination process.
- Need for Better Practices: He critiques the prevalent advice to "fire fast" without considering how the process affects the individual and the importance of creating a performance improvement plan (PIP) to communicate expectations prior to termination.
- Impact on Remaining Employees: Holman discusses how coworkers react to someone getting fired and the importance of maintaining professional discussions without resorting to gossip.
- Aftermath of Firing: He outlines logistical considerations post-termination, such as handling access to sensitive information and ensuring emotional clarity for the departing employee. He highlights the complexity of navigating severance, healthcare, and other benefits after leaving a job.
- Building a Positive Culture: Finally, Holman concludes with the idea that organizations should foster a supportive community even after employees depart, enhancing alumni connections and community support.
In summary, Holman's talk is a call to treat termination more humanely and to improve communication about it, both for those being let go and their colleagues. He encourages a shift in workplace culture to recognize the realities of firing in a compassionate manner, which can help preserve relationships and create a healthier working environment.
00:00:19.039
Before you guys came back in, I want you all to look underneath your chairs. Because by the time you look up, you’ll be fired! That was the joke I came up with before coming up on stage. I’m pretty happy about that one.
00:00:26.100
We’re talking about firing people today. David tweeted something about an hour ago, and like any good speaker, I’m going to take his words and repurpose them into whatever message I have to share with you. He mentioned companies that make it hard for you to cancel services. You know those companies are bad. I took this tweet and related it to how a company offboards their employees, which really says a lot about the company itself. I want you to think about that during this talk.
00:00:44.640
Some of you may be wondering why you have to sit through this dreary talk, especially after having a delicious lunch. But I think it’s important; it’s something that nobody really talks about, and it’s a strangely depressing aspect of our industry. About a year ago, I wrote a post called 'Fired,' which discussed my own experience of being fired. It ended up being one of the top stories on Hacker News in 2015, and it was strange to see how many people commented on my professional life.
00:01:15.360
In retrospect, the post was somewhat lacking; it basically said, 'Hey, I was fired. See ya!' That was enough for most people because nobody really shares experiences like that, but after reflecting on it for the last year, I realized it bothered me. I’ve learned a lot about this whole topic, and I wanted to talk more about it today. That’s what this talk is for.
00:01:39.060
The most common advice you hear about this subject is to 'fire fast.' But what does that even mean? It’s as if it’s just a quick hire and then goodbye. There's rarely any discussion about how to progress someone’s career at a company or how to manage their tenure there. It's strange that that's the best we can do.
00:02:04.380
When I published that post a year ago, I received tons of really interesting emails from people sharing their own stories—many of which were funny. One person told me about their experience at a code hosting company. In their first couple of weeks on the job, they accidentally uploaded a TV show that they thought was under their account. The company found out and fired him within a couple of weeks. He realized he probably shouldn't have done that.
00:02:41.280
There were many stories shared privately, especially from people you might know who were forced out of their own companies. They often said something like, 'I’m going to spend time with my family,' but the truth was, they were fired. Hearing these experiences made me reflect on how common this is and how nobody really discusses it.
00:03:06.420
But the question arises: why should we care? I remember a line from Office Space where they’re trying to remember a colleague's name, saying he’s 'not going to work here anymore.' But I think that’s wrong; we should care about this stuff because we’re human beings and we should do better with this whole process.
00:03:41.220
I hope this doesn’t come as a surprise, but I’m an American. I apologize for that. This is a strange talk to give here because America doesn’t tend to have things like worker-friendly laws or health care. This talk is kind of U.S.-centric because it’s informed by my experiences and those of my friends, and a lot of what I say may not apply to you, but it’s still worth considering.
00:04:15.300
In the U.S., we have at-will employment. In California, I could walk in and be told my shoes are the wrong color, and I would be out the door. This leads to many parallels with different aspects of leaving a company, quitting, being downsized, or any similar situation.
00:04:47.640
I apologize for the U.S.-centric nature of this talk, but while traveling, I feel the need to apologize for the U.S. a lot. And in my experience, handling the problem of firing someone, or even just leaving a company, brings up three different perspectives I want to cover today.
00:05:06.360
The first is your perspective if you have to deal with losing your job. There are many interesting lessons I’ve discovered through this, and I particularly want to address those of you who manage others. There are ways to make the whole process better for both you and the employee. If you're lucky enough to never be fired or to manage someone, you can still relate to the perspective of being a coworker.
00:05:40.680
What happens if you’re working with someone and they get fired? What do you do? How do you discuss it without it feeling like weird gossip? It's strange how we tend to not talk about people who are gone, as if they're dead.
00:06:03.000
So to give you a backstory, my name is Zach Holman, and I was at GitHub for five years. I was employee number nine, and over that time, the company grew to around 250 to 300 employees. By the end of my time there, I watched the company change quite a bit.
00:06:09.180
I grappled with giving this talk because I don’t want to just recount my experiences; I want to provide insights that can help others. However, I can’t share these insights without mentioning the pains I experienced. My story is a kind of extreme example; I was deeply involved with GitHub, kind of synonymous with it.
00:06:45.780
I was the top committer on the main GitHub repository for the last two years of my tenure, and I had just gone through a positive peer review with my manager. I received the largest stock bonus just six months before being fired. Looking at it from the outside, I seemed like the last person who would get fired, but the truth is, it can happen to anyone.
00:07:18.300
This brings me to my next point—unless you own the company, it ultimately controls your livelihood. Even if you do own the company, there are countless examples of founders being ousted from their own organizations.
00:07:43.020
I want to share my story, not just to bear my soul but also to illustrate the complexities involved in these situations. My journey began with burnout. Like a year and a half ago, I was amid some major projects, and I realized I hadn’t taken a vacation in five years. While I had been out on some enjoyable trips, the reality was that I was still 'on duty' in my head.
00:08:16.260
I talked with the CEO and expressed that I wanted to recharge my batteries. I ultimately ended up taking a sabbatical, which was open-ended but ended up being three months. Before I left, the CEO communicated that he would prefer I stay at GitHub when I returned, which I took as a positive sign.
00:08:52.920
Fast forward to February, when my manager sent me an email saying we needed to chat before I returned. This was strange because I hadn’t spoken to him in months. Looking back, anytime people start moving the goalposts on you, it’s a clear signal. I didn’t pick up on this at the time, but my mentor later advised that this is typically when they start to set you up to be let go.
00:09:22.680
Moving ahead, I had a conversation with my manager while I was in Colorado. We hadn’t spoken in months before that, even before the sabbatical because she had deemed one-on-one meetings unnecessary. I agreed to have a virtual sit-down. During this meeting, I discovered that HR was also on the line, which was not typical.
00:09:51.300
This changed the nature of the conversation, making it confrontational. I came into the conversation excited to discuss my plans for returning, but she countered by calling me an idiot in front of HR, which I found quite unprofessional. I made my first real mistake in response by filing a formal complaint to HR about her conduct.
00:10:33.420
I expressed that it was inappropriate for a manager to insult an employee in front of HR. I requested a transfer to another team. For those giggling in the audience, it’s important to remember that HR exists to protect the company, not you. This is particularly risky for marginalized groups; there are numerous stories of people being dismissed after reporting harassment.
00:11:05.520
The number one piece of advice is to avoid surprises. Anytime you deal with someone’s livelihood, giving them shocking news is detrimental. I recall an instance from a couple of years back at a conference when a colleague nervously mentioned how he had to speak with his manager. We reassured him he wouldn’t be fired. Sure enough, he was let go right before the conference began.
00:11:46.320
Making the news surprising does not help, especially in a professional setting. Creating a performance improvement plan (PIP) can be mutually beneficial; it allows the employee to understand what they need to work on, while also giving management documentation should they later need to let someone go.
00:12:40.920
I did not have a PIP, which I realized later was unfortunate. While I was in Colorado, I suggested we have a meeting once I returned on Wednesday, which got rescheduled to Friday. Then I got fired—not the best surprise.
00:13:06.060
When I sat down with the CEO, the first thing he said was, 'You’re not going to be happy here.' That was the reasoning given for my termination, which was frustrating because a person’s happiness should not dictate their worth to a company.
00:13:43.380
This made the entire experience pretty harsh. Considering this was my first time being fired, I wanted to offer some advice to those who may experience something similar. My friend is currently facing a drawn-out termination process, much longer than it ideally should take.
00:14:17.280
In these situations, staying calm is crucial. When someone tells you they’re transitioning you out, it’s akin to receiving a yellow card in soccer—you can argue all you want, but it won’t change the fact that the decision has been made. These people have done this countless times; they’re professionals at firing people, and you are not.
00:15:24.900
If you find yourself in such a situation, try to take a step back and delay any decisions as much as possible. Don’t sign anything without taking a few moments to calm down and think through the ramifications. I learned from Australians about a phrase related to change: the tallest poppy gets the hammer. It's intense, but speaks to the reality of workplace dynamics.
00:16:30.420
Many people leave companies for numerous reasons, often due to cultural fit. For example, I represented the part of my company that cared about the individual and product, while others did not. That dissonance likely contributed to my departure.
00:17:22.920
After one is let go, it’s essential to lock things down in regard to access. If someone leaves an organization, the standard practice requires reviewing access to sensitive information and systems. It’s necessary to anticipate any potential risk that could arise from someone either who has been terminated or who has willingly left.
00:17:53.340
For instance, at Dropbox, personnel accounts became interconnected, leading to an employee losing personal files upon termination, which included sensitive content. It’s crucial to consider the real-world implications of account access when roles change.
00:18:28.680
It’s also vital to ensure employees are not confused post-termination. Automating workflow for these processes, including who has access to what, can decrease emotional confusion. If you maintain good rapport with former colleagues, there can be advantages post-employment.
00:19:19.200
For example, while I still had access to a production service, I tried to inform them about necessary changes to keep things secure. Keeping good relationships can circumvent future problems.
00:19:52.020
Additionally, it's worth noting how managers need to manage the emotions involved in firing someone. Many have been fired themselves, and suggesting sympathy for painful terminations can come off as insincere, adding more pain to the situation.
00:20:27.900
When coworkers witness someone getting fired, they ought to strive to understand the reasoning behind it. That helps clarify any implications for their own projects. At the same time, gossip in the workplace shouldn’t be avoided entirely, as it can sometimes help address underlying problems.
00:21:21.000
From the management side, honesty is crucial. Employees at all levels share information more efficiently than management realizes. Any miscommunication can lead to distrust and more issues down the line.
00:21:54.540
If you fire multiple people at once, it can send various signals. It can strengthen the organization if everyone knows that it's for the right reasons, but if it comes out of the blue, it raises red flags.
00:22:30.480
After my experience at GitHub, I was trying to figure out my next steps, and I couldn’t shake the feeling of being an outsider. I made it a bit humorous by giving people long hugs and letting them know I just got fired.
00:23:06.060
I walked out of the office that day, received many messages from remote colleagues, and snapped a selfie to send to them since I was feeling surprisingly good about everything. Interestingly, I realized that when I looked back at that moment, it represented self-acceptance.
00:23:43.500
Later on, I tweeted something vague about my situation. The GitHub community reached out to wish me well on my next adventure, which felt comforting, even if I didn’t have anything lined up.
00:24:26.520
While journaling about my experiences, I reflected on how intimate the experience of being fired is—it’s a journey that’s uniquely personal. In contrast to other life milestones, being fired is largely solitary.
00:25:07.080
With so much uncertainty following my termination, I began to explore philosophical questions about purpose and direction. I even tried psychedelics, hoping for clarity. Ultimately, there was no big revelation.
00:25:46.140
Looking back, leaving work involves a considerable amount of logistics to consider—returning company property, addressing health insurance matters, and unraveling severance agreements are all aspects that must be navigated ASAP.
00:26:21.960
Things can feel overwhelming without a plan. I had to consider several things regarding the employee benefits I was entitled to and potentially nonexistent coverage after being let go.
00:27:00.600
In the US, severance pay can vary widely between companies, often requiring complex separation agreements. It’s crucial to remain level-headed and have all important aspects detailed in written form.
00:27:38.940
When companies provide individuals with a 90-day window for stock options, this period is critical. If you don’t quickly secure something in writing, you might lose what you’ve worked for.
00:28:26.340
Looking toward the future, reaching out to trusted professionals—between attorneys, accountants, or financial advisors—can help clarify the road ahead. Such connections and resources are vital.
00:29:09.060
Ultimately, it’s been a year of exploration, and although I was once tightly linked to the GitHub community, transitions take place. It’s a natural part of life.
00:29:43.620
Although friendships may change or fade, connections can still exist post-employment, provided mutual effort is made. It is okay to touch base occasionally with your former coworkers, as long as the exchanges are balanced.
00:30:38.520
Lastly, the alumni connections I formed are incredibly valuable. They foster community and support among those navigating life post-GitHub. We collectively share experiences while maintaining bonds, allowing us to learn from one another.
00:31:32.160
The point I want to make is this: It’s essential that organizations build a positive culture around their communities, even after people leave the company. There's room for continued connections that transpire naturally.
00:32:06.600
As I conclude, I’d like you to reflect on where you stand in your career. It is okay if you find yourself needing to leave for various reasons and embrace that journey—the end can lead to a bright future. Thank you.
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